US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[A320 Driver]

A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon you'll be talking about some serious cash. Yep, US Airways was the powerhouse and AWA the little wannabe airline.

Ah, get over it already!

It WAS some serious cash. We had enough of it to weather the storm until Wolfe decided our stock price needed a little boost and made two, yes TWO BILLION dollars go away. Then he had the gall to split 35 million bucks with the company president and the CFO on the eve of bankruptcy I.

I laugh to keep from crying

But, all this has nothing to do with nothing, does it?

Driver B)

 

[A320 Driver]

Don't take this the wrong way but had US Airways liquidated the rest of the industry would have benefitted enormously, including AWA.

Uhhhh, how do you suppose we should take it? <_<

 

[Ames]

Ah, get over it already!

It WAS some serious cash. We had enough of it to weather the storm until Wolfe decided our stock price needed a little boost and made two, yes TWO BILLION dollars go away. Then he had the gall to split 35 million bucks with the company president and the CFO on the eve of bankruptcy I.

I laugh to keep from crying

But, all this has nothing to do with nothing, does it?

Driver B)

Ok, my turn. Just what is your point? If you actually have one could you try making it without any of those childish smiley, smirking faces?

 

[A320 Driver]

Ok, my turn. Just what is your point? If you actually have one could you try making it without any of those childish smiley, smirking faces?

Here's my point. All this back and forth means NOTHING. NOTHING will be decided here except maybe solidifying hard feelings between our groups. Armchair lawyers prognosticating. I was just trying to lighten things up a little, but I see you will have none of that...fine.


B)

 

[usabusdriver]

Deleted.
Sorry, didn't realized it had already been discussed.....

 

[luvthe9]

Ah, get over it already!

It WAS some serious cash. We had enough of it to weather the storm until Wolfe decided our stock price needed a little boost and made two, yes TWO BILLION dollars go away. Then he had the gall to split 35 million bucks with the company president and the CFO on the eve of bankruptcy I.

I laugh to keep from crying

But, all this has nothing to do with nothing, does it?

Driver B)

Don't forget the 757's Wolf cancelled, but had to pay for. Another great move. Don't forget that he asked the pilots for all that input, right? That is why you are expected to bend over like a little boy scout and let the west have their way with you. That is their view of the world. NUTS!

 

[Pi brat]

Don't take this the wrong way but had US Airways liquidated the rest of the industry would have benefitted enormously, including AWA.

How could anyone take that wrong, it's just a "fact", right? I mean, look at how AWA's CMH hub kicked XXX and took names........no, that's not it. Well, there was that bundle of cash they were sitting on and no ATSB loan that they would use to buy US assets......no, that's not it either. I got it, AWA going to continue it's hugely successful trans-cons service.........shoot, what was it that was going to enable AWA to capitalize on a US shutdown?

You need to realize who you worked for. I'll give you a clue, it wasn't SWA.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

And without huge pay cuts the east pilots took (not the west) this merged airline would not have been viable from start. There is always more than one way to look at any issue......

Guess you forogt the rest of us workers who took paycuts, pension and job loss too, your not the only group.

Wolf canceled the 737s not the 757s.

 

[mikey60]

No it was 757's and yes we did have to pay for them.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

It was both:

Few airline disputes were as strange as the one between Boeing and US Airways airways Anatomy The 'pipes'–trachea, bronchi, bronchioles–through which air passes to and from the alveoli. See Small airways.

It began two years ago when US Airways' new chief executive, Stephen Wolfe, abruptly canceled a Boeing order and instead bought 400 Airbus Industrie A320 narrow-body jetliners.

US Airways executives told Boeing sales people to tear up to rip up; to remove from a fixed state by violence; as, to tear up a floor; to tear up the foundation of government or order s>.

See also: Tear contracts for 757 and 737 airplanes. That prompted Boeing to take the rare action of suing a customer for breach of contract.

Then US Airways countersued for $45 million, claiming Boeing improperly increased the purchase price of the aircraft by exaggerating labor costs.

Airline attorneys also claimed Boeing was trying to punish the carrier for buying Airbus jets.

The dispute ended yesterday when the power of contract law overcame US Airways' attempt to wiggle out of its contractual obligations.

The Arlington, Va.-based airline acknowledged yesterday that its 1996 cancellation was a breach of contract. The carrier made an undisclosed payment to Boeing.

US Airways had disclosed in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that it would have been liable for $450 million in damages for breaching two contracts worth $1.9 billion.

"Based on mutual business considerations, Boeing and US Airways have resolved our differences," the companies said in a statement.

US Airways long has been a Boeing customer, and the settlement follows the carrier's announcement Thursday that it's forming a partnership with another major Boeing customer, American Airlines American Airlines

Major U.S. airline. American was created through a merger of several smaller U.S. airlines and incorporated in 1934. It continued to buy the routes of other airlines, becoming an international carrier in the 1970s; its routes include South America, the .

US Airways also has been shopping for widebody jets, announcing several months ago that it wants to buy up to 20 Boeing 777s The Boeing 777 is an American long-range wide-body twin-engine airliner built by Boeing Commercial Airplanes. The world's largest twinjet and commonly referred to as the Triple Seven, it can carry between 301 and 368 passengers in a three-class configuration and has a range from or Airbus A340s For the road in England, see .

The Airbus A340 is a long-range four-engined widebody commercial passenger airliner manufactured by Airbus S.A.S. a subsidiary of EADS. It is similar in design to the twin-engined A330. .

The carrier has not made a decision, but industry analysts speculate that any deal with Boeing would involve a resolution of the contractual dispute.

"We're still talking with them," Boeing spokeswoman Liz Verdier said. "They are going to make a decision, and hopefully they'll choose Boeing."

Boeing's lawsuit against the carrier and US Airways' countersuit coun·ter·sue
tr.v. coun·ter·sued, coun·ter·su·ing, coun·ter·sues Law
To bring proceedings against (a plaintiff) in direct opposition to a suit brought against onself.
..... Click the link for more information. stemmed from the airline's refusal in 1996 to accept delivery of eight Boeing 757 aircraft or to make a $3 million partial payment to Boeing.

US Airways executives told Boeing officials to void two contracts to buy the eight 757s and 30 737s.

As part of the agreement, US Airways dropped its counterclaim A claim by a defendant opposing the claim of the plaintiff and seeking some relief from the plaintiff for the defendant.

A counterclaim contains assertions that the defendant could have made by starting a lawsuit if the plaintiff had not already begun the action. against Boeing.

 

[Al Legheny]

No it was 757's and yes we did have to pay for them.

I don't think this subject will ever expire... It seems neither side can beat this horse dead enough.

As to the condition of US Airways East, all we know is that US Airways did not go the way of TWA, Eastern or Pan Am.
Like grandma says.. "That which don't kill you, makes you stronger".

I guess that's what happened to the East. If you give up billions in wage, work rule, and retirement, and you survive the experience.... You will emerge stronger.

 

[biggie smalls]

No it was 757's and yes we did have to pay for them.

Speaking of group two a/c, straight from thr training department, the next recall class is Oct 4th which all 20 pilots will be going to the EMB190 followed by a Nov 1st class with another 20 pilots all going to group two a/c, due to the new duty times which just went into law three weeks ago.

 

[East Hole]

You're right. Without those concessions the old USAirways would certainly have liquidated long before. Meaning your job and employer would have been gone, all of you would have been starting over somewhere else or not at all, and someone would have bought up the pieces left over. So good for you for keeping your head above water until a rescue ship arrived!

Unfortunately your assertion above doesn't help the argument of other east pilots who claim there is no way "they" (whoever they are) would let US fail under any circumstances. Remember? There was too much cash flow and lease deals to let it fail, right? And if that's the case I guess those concessions were unnecessary and should not count for anything since it was done out of the goodness of your hearts. A gift to the shareholders and executives I guess.

So which is it? Your old airline would have not survived without the huge pay cuts? Or no way "they" would let the airline liquidate? You guys love to try to have it both ways depending on the argument of the day.

The simple point is we took pay cuts for our benefit. I know this does not make sense in the desert....

 

[PullUp]

Speaking of group two a/c, straight from thr training department, the next recall class is Oct 4th which all 20 pilots will be going to the EMB190 followed by a Nov 1st class with another 20 pilots all going to group two a/c, due to the new duty times which just went into law three weeks ago.

Please give details on the 'new duty times that just went into law...'
Haven't heard about them, please give a link or additional details.
Thanks

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

It was both:

The flight 427 crash, or rather, Boeing's trying to blame the pilots in spite of mounting evidence of the 737's rudder control problems led to serious bad blood between the companies. US never purchased another new Boeing airplane.