US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[PullUp]

Hire dates have nothing to do with anything. Your 17 year guys had more time on furlough than they did flying when the acquisition was consummated. Despite the rhetoric, flying for MDA, a commuter airline, does not count.

That issue is still to be decided - but for my money, when your paycheck says USAirways and your operating certificate says USAirways and your union membership is the same as the mainline....well, if it walks like a duck...despite what corporate department of mind control wants you to believe, through a comedy of circumstances, errors, lies, and omissions, these guys really did work for USAirways.
All that's left is for the court to pronounce judgement on whether the duck quacks, thus completing the logic stream.
Any MDA guys out there with an update?
Have a ducky day.

 

[RSVP767]

My dream is the day I never have to see another airport, hotel, or restaurant again.

So what are you waiting for? Adios amigo!

 

[RSVP767]

Well, had I been added to the east list, or even the company that the pilot beneath me was employed at, this might be relevant.

However, since neither is the case I think I will just say that the usapa DOH seniority theft scandal places a over 100 east pilots with less LOS than myself above me. Further, it moves me so far from my Nic number that I will never again in my career reach the same relative seniority I had at AWA, and likely never reach the relative seniority to be able to hold the very captain seat I have been sitting in for over the last ten years.

On second thought, I will tell you. I have 5 years at LCC, all as an A320 captain, the east pilot directly below me has 5 years at LCC, think he is a PHL based A320 captain. BTW, he makes less than me and gets less vacation also, wish I could help him out but there is this group of east pilots trying to steal the West pilots seniority that are holding up the bargaing process.

So what is your point?

Nic,

You're a hoot. Always good entertainment in your posts. Why don't you just answer 'Luv's' question? Or does acknowledging and vocalizing your windfall make you uncomfortable?

 

[Ames]

Yes, that is really honest. Fabricate years of service you never actually were ever on the property, then jump years ahead of some guy who actually was in the seat doing the job.Then call it justice. X Box mentality at its' best. Socialism is more like it.

Hey, I just took a peek at usapa's DOH list recently passed to the company. I am only 670 numbers junior to a east guy I know who was furloughed at the time the acquisition occurred. He had been furloughed for the majority of his time on the seniority list and I a captain, never furloughed also with more length of service.

Now where did I leave my X Box.....? Can't find it anywhere......

Socialism? usapa = dictatorship

Justice. I hope to God we see it soon.

 

[PullUp]

Justice. I hope to God we see it soon.

Me too. Although justice is relative and soon is a nebulous concept. Praying is probably a good thing though.

 

[A320 Driver]

Hey, I just took a peek at usapa's DOH list recently passed to the company. I am only 670 numbers junior to a east guy I know who was furloughed at the time the acquisition occurred. He had been furloughed for the majority of his time on the seniority list and I a captain, never furloughed also with more length of service.

Now where did I leave my X Box.....? Can't find it anywhere......

Socialism? usapa = dictatorship

Justice. I hope to God we see it soon.

What acquisition might that be? AWA didn't BUY anything. Get your terms straight. It was a merger with third party money paying the bills.

Driver B)

 

[nic4us]

Apparently the West Pilots have mentioned the name a lot in their updates. You know the Judge you expect to over rule an appellate court decision. You expect Judge Wake back again to save the day then enjoy a game of golf with him. You and the company will learn about the end of your successes with local kangaroo courts very shortly.

West pilots update.

Kangaroo court? Me and "the company"? Golf with Wake?

You feel that the company is on the West side of all of this?

First, I never said the district court would vacate the 9ths ruling. I really do not know if there is a mechanism in place for that to be possible or not. Perhaps ROACLT could chime in on that. However, I would imagine that the 9th circuit court could vacate its own ruling, once new evidence is brought to light.

So I would ask this, to whom or where would usapa appeal if it does not agree with the results of the company's request for declaratory judgement? Would that be the same 9th circuit court of appeals that made no ruling on the merits of the Addington trial? Ouch...usapa can't go there without stepping in its own excrement.

Funny thing about these "kangaroo" courts, they have legs.

Can't wait for the temp to break in Phoenix, I am getting tired of the pool and would like to hit the links. I wonder who has the higher handicap, me or Judge Silver.

 

[Ames]

What acquisition might that be? AWA didn't BUY anything. Get your terms straight. It was a merger with third party money paying the bills.

Driver B)

Back to the point, sport....

Deflection only works so much.

PS: I will forever call it an acquisition because that's what it was. I read the filings. You guys don't read much (outside web board BS) you just believe everything your "union" tells you.

 

[cleardirect]

So, in your world of jurisprudence, a lower court action gets to override a ruling by a higher court. Interesting concept. In the real world of law, a federal district judge is bound by the decisions of the circuit court above him/her and by the Supreme Court above all. The Ninth Circuit ruled that Addington is not ripe. Absent a Supreme Court intervention on that ruling, that's it. It's not ripe. There is nothing Judge Silver can do in her courtroom to change that fact. She knows it.

So do you think that the rule 60 (b ) is just window dressing to heft up the federal statues. That it really has no meaning?

Has it never been used before?

In the real world words have meaning and rules apply.

Just how would you know what judge Silvers knows? Perhaps you are in the same knitting circle as she is. Is there some bias that we need to worry about? It you know what she knows.

 

[Phoenix]

The Army of Leo has a new "contribute" button on their website available for contributing. Click it for immediate results!
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[nic4us]

Nic,

You're a hoot. Always good entertainment in your posts. Why don't you just answer 'Luv's' question? Or does acknowledging and vocalizing your windfall make you uncomfortable?

Thanks, I try.

The reason luv asked the question was because I called him out on the "fabrication" of years of service statement. The usapa DOH list puts hundreds of east pilots with less LOS ahead of West captains who have more LOS, of which I am one. That is the only "fabrication" of years that is taking place.

On the Nic, everyone already knows that it took 17 years on the east to not be unemployed, while it only took two months on the West, and we had no unemployed. So here is the answere to luv's question to which everyone already knows the answere.

The pilot one number junior to me on the Nic was hired somewhere between 3.5 to 17 years before me at a company that no longer exist. He has retained his system seniority, his position, his status, and his expectation.

It is not a "fabrication" of years of service, it is not a "windfall", it is not a justification for usapa's attempt at stealing West seniority. It is the stark reality of the differences between the two companies involved in the merger.

There are many aspects of this debacle that make me very uncomfortable. Having a hostile union that sits on West grievences, files section 19 cases agains West pilots, seeks West pilots termination through section 29, files RICO lawsuits, attempts to re-arrange the seniority list, and is in general a despicable association lured into the false hope of making itself somewhat whole at my and my fellow West pilots expense, would have to top the list.

Supporting a seniority integration achieved through a contractualy mandated arbitrated decision does not make me uncomfortable at all.

 

[nic4us]

AWA didn't BUY anything. Get your terms straight. It was a merger with third party money paying the bills.

Driver B)

Yes, you are correct it was a "merger",

and the majority stock holder, the group that ended up owning more of the new company's stock than any other third party investor, something close to 40% of the new company, and more than double what the next closest investor owned in the new company would have been who?

Oh, never mind I will just go ahead and tell you.

America West Holdings Corp.

welcome to the new "merged" corporation "Cactus" pilot.

 

[767jetz]

Yes, you are correct it was a "merger",

and the majority stock holder, the group that ended up owning more of the new company's stock than any other third party investor, something close to 40% of the new company, and more than double what the next closest investor owned in the new company would have been who?

Oh, never mind I will just go ahead and tell you.

America West Holdings Corp.

welcome to the new "merged" corporation "Cactus" pilot.

Exactly right. The east loves to tout the word merger because it sounds better to them, when in reality it was an acquisition. UA and CO are merging. It is called a merger of equals. I have no problem what so ever with the word merger. However, technically UA is acquiring CO in a stock swap deal. UA stock is being given to CO shareholders at an agreed upon ratio. (Not the other way around.)

The AWA/USA merger was a merger, but on paper it was an acquisition. And it certainly was not a merger of equals, because regardless of what anyone could predict about the future at the time, when the deal was made one company was currently solvent and the other was not.

I don't think that any of those details change the facts of this seniority dispute. But lets at least be candid and accurate about the underlying circumstances of this marriage.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What Captain jobs Jim? We just displaced over 30 A330 Captains in April and closed two bases. Unless there is a vacancy, there is no job available.

All true, but there were also numerous vacancy awards to other Captain jobs. As you know (or should), under the East permanent bid system it is not just possible but common to have vacancy awards while pilots are being displaced - even from the same exact job (base, equip, seat).

My point is that the West position has changed from one of protectionism regarding West bases to pressing any advantage allowed under the Nic.
Glad you enjoyed your trip!

Driver B)

It's not an either/or situation - protecting their seniority in PHX and sharing in mutual gains/loses go hand in hand. Nic does that while DOH doesn't.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Back to the point, sport....

Deflection only works so much.

PS: I will forever call it an acquisition because that's what it was. I read the filings. You guys don't read much (outside web board BS) you just believe everything your "union" tells you.

No sweat, Ace. What WAS your point?


Driver B)