US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[AWE Dog]

The only people that think it is a turd are east pilot. Projecting your opinion onto others will not get you very far.

Just to remind you and once again put things in context and correct east misunderstanding. Here are the transcripts of what judge Wake was losing sleep over.

This trial was NOT about the merits of the Nicolau or arbitration. No matter how hard usapa tried to make it. That is what judge Wake was losing sleep over. That he had allowed usapa to much lee way away from the DFR and making it about the award.

Your quoting a judge in a case that should have never been heard. Oh and the merits, Why would the west hide the merits. If your so in the right put it out there. Oh no, we don't want the Nic judged on merits.

 

[traderjake]

What I don't do, but see you doing and why I said your anger clouded your judgment, was to throw out a blanket condemnation of all that is USAPA and come out with 99% negative posts towards my east co-workers. I think USAPA has gotten somethings right and I understand my east co-workers concerns. I cannot recall a positive post from you about anything east. When you are part of a group and you do nothing but sharply criticize everything it does, I think that tends to harden them in their position, not bridge the gap.

That's because 99 % of what USAPA has done is negative and their fundamental principle of DOH is indefensible.

I have stated that I agree with the East that we should have gotten some kind credit for the retirement attrition, is that positive enough for you?

USAPA agreed to binding arbitration and lost. Now the East "moderate position" is to find some middle ground, i.e. split the baby.

You want to defend them for the 1% they got right be my guess. I say you're wrong for doing so. I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Metroyet]

Your quoting a judge in a case that should have never been heard. Oh and the merits, Why would the west hide the merits. If your so in the right put it out there. Oh no, we don't want the Nic judged on merits.

Wake Indulged Seham beyond belief with the whining about the Nic. award. The Jury heard basically nothing else from USAPA about how mean and unfair Nic. was to their nearly unemployed pilot group. The perceived fairness or unfairness of NIC. had absolutely NOTHING to do with the DFR trial. As much as USAPA would like everyone to believe that ...it's not the truth. Using the majority as a hammer to steal from the minority is illegal. That's why the first DFR conviction. It will be orders of magnitude easier to convict next time around...if it ever comes to that. If the company is liable, DOH will go no further...EVER. No need for DFR2.0.

 

[cleardirect]

Your quoting a judge in a case that should have never been heard. Oh and the merits, Why would the west hide the merits. If your so in the right put it out there. Oh no, we don't want the Nic judged on merits.

If you have a problem with the merits of the award you should have gone to court over the arbitration.

This case was about what usapa did not what Nicolau did.

usapa's defense was "it was not fair" Talk to Nicolau.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

Keep personal comments and accusations against individual posters to yourselves or to PM......they will be deleted without comment if they appear on this board.

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA agreed to binding arbitration and lost. Now the "moderate position" is to find some middle ground, i.e. split the baby.

Well that may be true but on a very wide scope. Nic in place and other contract enhancements so that an overall package is acceptable could be viewed as splitting the baby. But in the original source for that saying, King Solomon actually knew he would never kill the baby and ended up giving it to the rightful parent. I think Cleary, however, would have no problem allowing an atrocity to proceed rather than admit defeat and sacrifice his pride for the good of the pilot group.

USAPA has no history of good-faith negotiating; simply a cycle of demanding, being denyed and then blaming others. I don't see any "moderate position" coming willingly out of USAPA.

 

[Freebird]

specious reasoning: misleading, deceptive, false, fallacious, unsound, spurious, casuistic, sophistic.

Accusations of greed, dishonestly, lack of integrity, easthole, scab, etc. are superficial at best and simply a failure to accept the reality of where we now are as a pilot group. Accusations about anyone's motivation or moral rectitude at this point are simply whining and irrelevant (try it as an opener at the SCOTUS), unless of course they make you fell better. Carry on.

The corruption you support at usapa is quite dishonorable. Your attempt to steal, or better yet, create a windfall for yourselves is pathetic. Your majority is the only power you have in this. However you must sacrifice your morality and honor (if you ever had any) to justify your plot.

The East pilots have to live with themselves. Unhappy and downtrodden as ever.

Keep blowing your horn.

 

[traderjake]

I don't see any "moderate position" coming willingly out of USAPA.

I should have been more specific, splitting the baby is position of so called East moderates, I don't see USAPA moving off their DOH position.

 

[SegmentKing]

Omg, its the evil east again. Lets not forget the profit sharing granted to the west side.

I'm starting to understand why the west is demanding the NIC be implemented. If I followed airline history properly and noticed how PHX was always downsized when the economy goes sour, I'd be looking for any types of job protections too!!

 

[Ames]

The westies have underestimated the east resolve from the start of this abortion of a merger. The old pilots of the east have taken the high road.

Hate

Only in YOUR world is attempting to weasel out of binding arbitration "the high road".

 

[cleardirect]

Omg, its the evil east again. Lets not forget the profit sharing granted to the west side.

I'm starting to understand why the west is demanding the NIC be implemented. If I followed airline history properly and noticed how PHX was always downsized when the economy goes sour, I'd be looking for any types of job protections too!!

Oh yes the profit sharing again. Have you received a check in the last couple of years? Because I have not. So just how valuable was that?

I think total we have gotten about 4000-$5000 total. What would a new contract be worth?

also I know the east di not just give the to the west out of the goodness of your hearts. That is not in the make up of the east. So you must have gotten something for it. If not go talk to your reps about giving more things away.

Maybe you guys are just that bad at negotiations. Profit sharing, arbitration, pension, LOA93.

 

[Ames]

You should probably read this. Then you would realize what an absurd post you just made:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2010/AAR1003.pdf

Working for a company that now provides a one page matrix to tell you whether or not to fly into a thunderstorm I do understand how one might lose their instincts only to get involved in the paper chase. My post was not absurd, just offensive to those who have enjoyed AQP for so long.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Oh yes the profit sharing again. Have you received a check in the last couple of years? Because I have not. So just how valuable was that?

I think total we have gotten about 4000-$5000 total. What would a new contract be worth?

also I know the east di not just give the to the west out of the goodness of your hearts. That is not in the make up of the east. So you must have gotten something for it. If not go talk to your reps about giving more things away.

Maybe you guys are just that bad at negotiations. Profit sharing, arbitration, pension, LOA93.

That's why that group that did all that is history! MM! A difference of bargaining proposals!

 

[cleardirect]

That's why that group that did all that is history! MM! A difference of bargaining proposals!

What has this new union accomplished? Same old voters.

New contract yet?

 

[Heretic]

I should have been more specific, splitting the baby is position of so called East moderates, I don't see USAPA moving off their DOH position.

Sorry to change the tempo, but without insulting anyone here... Traderjake, why do you say "DOH postion", instead of "DOH with conditions and resrtictions"? Do you see them both as the same thing? Perhaps I am not understanding the difference. Everytime I read USAPA's take on this, they use the latter term. I am well aware of the "west pilots" intransigence of adding conditions and restrictions to the Nichalau decision.
If one is arguing in a truthful manner about a conflict, should not one argue both sides "fact/position" to the others?

Respectfully, if not in agreement.