US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

You like money and you chose to work for america west. Thats a classic.......

Do you know all the words to "Glory Days"?

Better yet, do you know any other songs??

 

[nic4us]

"and once the LOA 93 goes in favor of the company......" this is why we are battling you guys, and will forever. If we win, you are done, and you better get used to that.

I do not understand.

I post the two possibilities, either you win or lose the loa93 grievence and it somehow highlights why usapa is very good at commiting breachs of their DFR to the West pilot group?

If you win the loa93 grievence, the West is done how? You mean to tell me usapa will continue its goal of permanent seperate ops? Good luck with that when you no longer have the company colluding with usapa to maintain seperate ops.

 

[Metroyet]

The westies have underestimated the east resolve from the start of this abortion of a merger. The old pilots of the east have taken the high road. Funny how the west pilots want that nic so bad and would sign on to anything to get it. The east pilots do not want anything the west has to offer. The west had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Freund warned JR, Jmac and KS that all the risk was on the west side of the transaction. He told them the BK judge was never going to allow the east to liquidate. We have all the emails. Then Freund makes the case to St. Nic that the east had already failed..........the old man then gives everything to the west.......you can't make this stuff up! The old man uses the wrong east list! Unbelievable.

MDA was in fact mainline..........J. Glass under oath. Nice! Way to go ALPA.

LOA 93 Pay Restoration.

January 1, 2011 Lump sum $10,300 per east pilot.

East Attrition right around the corner.

Keep the donations coming!

Hate

The same old whining, cry-baby list sprinkled with puffed chest bravado. The MERITS of the Addington Case/DFRII are what you should be worried about. That is the heart and soul of the entire mess...the MERITS. Not the worn out laundry list of perceived boogey men, entitlement, and paranoid conspiracy theories. The MERITS of the case, which you'll be getting to revisit at some point either via the Company's law suit or DFRII, are rock solid. USAPA FAILED to make ANY substantive arguments in defense of their position. Not one. "Not ripe" is not much of a victory...especially when 2 Fed Judges already think it's ripe, and the other two just say "not yet" even though USAPA is constitutionally committed to see DRFII to fruition. I think 99% of you know that you've won absolutely NOTHING from the 9th.

Common sense and a 4th grade ability to comprehend the written word should prevent anyone from ascertaining that USAPA is now free, without liabilities or responsibility to cram a DOH contract down the throats of the Company and the West. C&R arbitrarily contrived by a scant few East Pilots, with no input from authorized, (or ANY for that matter) West pilots is absolutely bound to fail a real legal review. Certainly most Easties understand that. It's common sense really. I know a few of you have this odd Superiority Complex where by you actually believe you're powerful, have clout, and can bully whomever you please into succumbing to your way of thinking but the sane amongst you must see the current situation for what it is...Dire for USAPA. That's why the ardent backlash against the new suit from the Company. Ever wonder why USAPA has vowed to "fight" it, (how do you fight a declaratory judgment btw?) and why AOL INVITES this sort of inquiry?

LOA 93 Arb. is toast
Company is bound by the TA. Perhaps they should hire Seham? They could re-name the airline US Aerways and they wouldn't be bound by ANY prior agreements....Right? Isn't that how it logically works in the real world?

 

[nic4us]

Someone got spanked!...............We love having Cleary at the tip of the spear!

Hate

Hate, we all know what you usapa guys like, but try to keep it PG rated, ok?

 

[Pilot692]

The second part of reading, is comprehension and then applying what you've read or: understanding. At that point, you will begin to understand the meaning behind the information given to you.

It's a matter of time before Usapa crosses the DFR line. They can avoid it however, by living up to the commitments they inherited by their predecessor. Anything less is a DFR. The company knows it, too well.

Otherwise, they'd have negotiated with you long ago. Whats the hold up? The L-A-W? Oh yes, that doesn't apply to greedy east pilots.

Tread lightly my friend...

"live a lie, and you'll live to regret it..." Jimmy Buffett


Be good and you will be lonesome.
Be lonesome and you will be free.

 

[snapthis]

We love having Cleary at the tip of the spear!
Hate

I'm sure Leonidas would agree.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I'm sure Leonidas

Who?

 

[luvn737s]

So when USAPA tries to start their getaway car (DOH Contract) they find the company standing there with the distributor (Nic award) saying, "you looking for something son?"

Actually the company should have no problem getting the NMB to park them until they are given guidance as to how much it will cost them to conspire with USAPA. So USAPA should have put out the news flash, "Addington overturned - Contract to be presented in 3-4 years. WE WIN, WE WIN, WE WIN!!"

I am looking forward to the company announcement that their counsel has advised them they are free to negate any or all of the Transition Agreement including the mixing of east and west metal and/or the opening of west crew bases in PHL and CLT (just like there are separate regional operators in the hubs, this would apply to mainline as well).

Or Cleary's recall/firing, I good with either.

 

[cleardirect]

Who?

Good. You guys keep thinking that we somehow are gone or don't matter anymore.

It will be a big surprise when you wake up one day and have to vote on a contract that includes the Nicolau.

 

[cleardirect]

I don’t know about you guys but this does not sound to me like the company thinks to highly of Seham and his filings. For a party that says they are neutral they found 3 reasons to oppose USAPA 0 reasons to oppose the west pilots.

It sure does not look to me like usapa has a willing partner in negotiating a DOH list. What will usapa do if the west pilots refuse to negotiate for anything other than Nicolau and the company refuses to negotiate anything other than the Nicolau list? I guess they negotiate with themselves. I wonder how that will turn out.

Remind me again how usapa won in the ninth? The injunction gave the company cover. They could say a court will not let them negotiate. Without the injunction the company is going to say without the protection (immunity from being sued) of the court they cannot negotiate anything but the Nicolau.

So no injunction, nothing to stop usapa from negotiating any contract they can. When are we going to see that vote? No excuses now. It is all on usapa, time to perform boys let’s see what you can do. Let’s see what kind of skill and talent Cleary has put together.

I know it will be the companies fault right. Bad excuse it is the same company and circumstances that ALPA or any other union would have to deal with. What kind of leverage is usapa going to bring. Oh yea that’s right you have red badge backers. Scary!

As alleged in its Complaint for Declaratory Relief, US Airways has not taken and will not take sides in the seniority dispute between the East and West pilot groups. For that reason, US Airways also will not take sides between the Addington Defendants and USAPA regarding the motion to transfer. US Airways does not want to quarrel with the defendants over which judge should resolve the seniority dispute.

1. US Airways notes its disagreement with USAPA’s assertion (at page 10 of its Opposition) that the “same contingent events that deprived . . . [the prior Addington v. USAPA case] of ripeness deprive the US Airways matter of ripeness, i.e., negotiation, tentative agreement, and ratification.”...

2. US Airways notes its disagreement with USAPA’s assertion (at page 5 of its Opposition) that “the Company has sought to deliberately delay negotiations [for a single new collective bargaining agreement] in order to promote its own economic gain by prolonging the pilots’ wage rates, which are currently the lowest among all major airline pilot groups.” To the contrary, the filing of the Complaint for Declaratory Relief reflects US Airways’ strong desire for prompt completion of negotiations and, as alleged in the Complaint, it is “[t]he uncertainty surrounding the lawfulness under the Railway Labor Act of the entry into a collective bargaining agreement which does not include the Nicolau Award” that has prevented the successful completion of negotiations. (Complaint ¶ 42.) Moreover, USAPA’s assertion is not relevant to the motion to transfer. ...

3. US Airways must also address USAPA’s argument regarding Judge Wake’s alleged lack of impartiality because US Airways cannot allow its neutrality regarding the transfer motion to be misconstrued as acquiescence in that argument. As noted above, US Airways will not take sides in the dispute between defendants over whether Judge Wake or Judge Silver should resolve the seniority dispute. However, US Airways does not condone or support in any manner USAPA’s arguments (made by USAPA in its Opposition to Motion to Transfer at pages 15-16) to the effect that Judge Wake is “not impartial” or that transfer must be denied “in order to preserve substantive justice.”

it is “[t]he uncertainty surrounding the lawfulness under the Railway Labor Act of the entry into a collective bargaining agreement which does not include the Nicolau Award” that has prevented the successful completion of negotiations.

That I think is my favorite line. This is from a premiere labor lawyer and expert in RLA. The company thinks that they will get sued and lose if they use something other than the Nicolau award. You guys can not say that this lawyer does not know what he is talking about. That he does not understand RLA.

Could it be that it is Seham that has lead you guys down the wrong path? That Seham misunderstood?

 

[nic4us]

I don’t know about you guys but this does not sound to me like the company thinks to highly of Seham and his filings. For a party that says they are neutral they found 3 reasons to oppose USAPA 0 reasons to oppose the west pilots.

It sure does not look to me like usapa has a willing partner in negotiating a DOH list. What will usapa do if the west pilots refuse to negotiate for anything other than Nicolau and the company refuses to negotiate anything other than the Nicolau list? I guess they negotiate with themselves. I wonder how that will turn out.

Remind me again how usapa won in the ninth? The injunction gave the company cover. They could say a court will not let them negotiate. Without the injunction the company is going to say without the protection (immunity from being sued) of the court they cannot negotiate anything but the Nicolau.

So no injunction, nothing to stop usapa from negotiating any contract they can. When are we going to see that vote? No excuses now. It is all on usapa, time to perform boys let’s see what you can do. Let’s see what kind of skill and talent Cleary has put together.

I know it will be the companies fault right. Bad excuse it is the same company and circumstances that ALPA or any other union would have to deal with. What kind of leverage is usapa going to bring. Oh yea that’s right you have red badge backers. Scary!




it is “[t]he uncertainty surrounding the lawfulness under the Railway Labor Act of the entry into a collective bargaining agreement which does not include the Nicolau Award” that has prevented the successful completion of negotiations.

That I think is my favorite line. This is from a premiere labor lawyer and expert in RLA. The company thinks that they will get sued and lose if they use something other than the Nicolau award. You guys can not say that this lawyer does not know what he is talking about. That he does not understand RLA.

Could it be that it is Seham that has lead you guys down the wrong path? That Seham misunderstood?

Clear,

Where are you getting the full filings from? I have not found a link to any of this stuff.

I have got to read usapa's opposition to the transfer to judge Wake. Did the DFR masters just tell the judge who is likely to hear the case that he is not capable of being impartial?

This is getting better all the time.

Also can you provide a link to judge Wake's order to dismiss in compliance with the 9th's mandate?

 

[Hate2fly]

The westies make us laugh back east. You guys have just suffered a major loss with your fake DFR. Aqua and fergie and some of your other legal geniuses wasted big bucks. And you still don't get it! We in the east just pay our dues and life goes on. USAPA is the best money I ever spent. The company is loving this right now. They are saving so much money as long as we are in separate operations. Separate operations has been really good for the west............remember you are flying 24% of our east flying. You move up your list and we move up ours. No windfalls!

Keep the donations coming!

Hate

 

[Ames]

FLT 1549 Miracle on The Hudson. Biggest and best accolade for any airline crew ever. East Crewed......

Maybe, maybe not. Most pilots would have had the instinct to firewall the thrust levers. Toga, anyone?

 

[N924PS]

Maybe, maybe not. Most pilots would have had the instinct to firewall the thrust levers. Toga, anyone?

You should probably read this. Then you would realize what an absurd post you just made:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2010/AAR1003.pdf

 

[nic4us]

The westies make us laugh back east. You guys have just suffered a major loss with your fake DFR. Aqua and fergie and some of your other legal geniuses wasted big bucks. And you still don't get it! We in the east just pay our dues and life goes on. USAPA is the best money I ever spent. The company is loving this right now. They are saving so much money as long as we are in separate operations. Separate operations has been really good for the west............remember you are flying 24% of our east flying. You move up your list and we move up ours. No windfalls!

Keep the donations coming!

Hate

Yeah what a waste. usapa is no closer to their DOH cramdown than the night in the back of the van. Keep paying your dues, Cleary appreciates the 191k, the 161k for the grievence F/O ain't so bad either( she still makes less than a West captain though), what does the mis-communication minister of loser propoganda take home?

AOL, not the best money I ever spent, but worth every penny and collecting interest to boot!

Keep the seperate ops going, it is going to pay huge dividends to the West.

Figured out why the company wants out of the seperate ops collusion yet?