US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[traderjake]

Despite parking 30-40 aircraft the attrition out ran the shrinkage and we recalled several hundred pilots, didn't we? But Mr. Nic still, with the advantage of hindsight, put them on the bottom.

Yes, we recalled pilots.

What is your point?

That pilots with no job waiting to be recalled should be senior to pilots with jobs?

That's ridiculous.

I agree that we should have gotten some kind of credit for the retirement attrition we brought to the merger.

Maybe the upgrades could have been proportional to the retirements

Did we ever ask for retirement attrition credit?

No, we forced the merger committee to adopt a position that had zero chance of success under the ALPA merger policy.

We lost the retirement attrition because of our own stupidity and greed.

 

[luvthe9]

You mean kind of like the ninth circuit issued their opinion along with the dissent?


Why it did not go away. Because there was a merger. Go ask the money men what the BK exit plan was if AWA had not come along.

For a majority of four existences our contract was inferior to yours. Maybe but as time marches on that is changing. Since 2004 you have been vastly inferior to the industry.
So 6 years of LOA 93.
Years on service
15 years 40% of your career at bottom wages. Getting close to being a majority of a career at vastly inferior wages.
20 years 30%
25 years 24%
30 years 20% of a career scraping the bottom.

How much longer are you willing to wait? 4-5 years.
10 years on LOA 93 wages.
20 years 50%
25 years 40%
30 years 30% of a career at BK wages and work rules. As you put it inferior wages. Longing for the glory days of what you had does not cut it. Let’s not forget that attrition you all place so much value on. How many are going to retire at BK wages bottom of the industry? Remembering what you used to make and seeing the last pay check walking out the door might anger some people.
Do you believe that usapa can get a contract good enough to make up for any of that?




You have your opinion. The guy whose opinion mattered disagreed.


Not just you but guys like you.


It turns out that they were not mainline. the company took their longevity for time there. The court has not rule on the MDA DFR so you can't point to that. Just because it was the same certificate does not matter.

You missed your chance Clear and Direct. Missed by a mile. You can't do it anymore, we could go back and dredge up your own troubled times also, but you see this has moved to a different point in time. You missed, by a mile..............

 

[Hate2fly]

Why is USAPA afraid to put up a contract to vote on? Afraid the "older" senior East pilots who are unaffected by this will vote for a pay raise and move on?

Why is Cleary afraid? Does he think it will pass, regardless of his expensive legal campaign? Why are you afraid?

Prove yourselves with a vote.

USAPA afraid? Cleary afraid? You westies just had your clocks cleaned big time! The east doesn't care what you think.

Keep the donations coming.

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

You missed your chance Clear and Direct. Missed by a mile. You can't do it anymore, we could go back and dredge up your own troubled times also, but you see this has moved to a different point in time. You missed, by a mile..............

I missed what by a mile? That the longer you work under LOA 93 the larger and larger percent of your career will be at inferior wages? No I got that right.

Those are the facts today and going forward. Until the east accepts the Nicolai and usapa somehow manages to get a new contract the east will be at inferior wages. Everyday that you remain where you are at is another day that balance shifts to the east being the drag on the industry.

 

[nic4us]

Why is USAPA afraid to put up a contract to vote on? Afraid the "older" senior East pilots who are unaffected by this will vote for a pay raise and move on?

Why is Cleary afraid? Does he think it will pass, regardless of his expensive legal campaign? Why are you afraid?

Prove yourselves with a vote.

usapa knows they are not going to get a contract. That is no longer the plan, or even in the realm of possibilities. They are intentionally forcing seperate ops, hoping to win the loa93 grievence and remain in seperate ops for the duration. The company is tiring of their BS as indicated by its recent request for declaratory judgement. Once the loa93 arbitration goes in favor of the company usapa is done. They can either present a Nic inclusive contract for a vote, or be voted off the island. If they win the loa93 grievence it will be seperate ops, DFRII, and the begining of the end for the east pilot group.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA afraid? Cleary afraid? You westies just had your clocks cleaned big time! The east doesn't care what you think.

Keep the donations coming.

Hate

Got our clocks cleaned really. How do you define that?

The ninth circuit only ruled on ripeness nothing else. They did not rule on the merits of the DFR. They did not prevent the west from filing the same DFR suit if usapa ever gets to a contract that does not include the Nicolau. The company believes that the Nicolau is still valid or they would not have filed their law suit.

So just how did we get our clocks cleaned?

It was usapa that got their clocks cleaned in the RICO suit. That was dismissed with prejudice in NC. the affirmed in the fourth curcuit. No contest there. No do over no question. usapa was wrong from beginning to end. There is no way to even spin that $300,000 loss.

 

[Metroyet]

The east doesn't care what you think.
Hate

That's stating the obvious. Unfortunately for you the East union you elected is Legally Obligated to care...not just dictate terms in bad faith. When the MERITS of the case were last on trial, as they most certainly will be again if a DOH list is ever accepted by the company, A Jury of YOUR peers found your union guilty of DFR in less than 2 hrs. Nic. was NEVER on trial btw. There's nothing to argue there. Binding is Binding. Nothing you've encountered yet...in the last 3 years should give a rational person any indication that DOH is going to fly. Nothing whatsoever, should give any Eastie hope that their DOH cram down dreams will be realized. Seham's lies don't count.

 

[luvthe9]

usapa knows they are not going to get a contract. That is no longer the plan, or even in the realm of possibilities. They are intentionally forcing seperate ops, hoping to win the loa93 grievence and remain in seperate ops for the duration. The company is tiring of their BS as indicated by its recent request for declaratory judgement. Once the loa93 arbitration goes in favor of the company usapa is done. They can either present a Nic inclusive contract for a vote, or be voted off the island. If they win the loa93 grievence it will be seperate ops, DFRII, and the begining of the end for the east pilot group.

"and once the LOA 93 goes in favor of the company......" this is why we are battling you guys, and will forever. If we win, you are done, and you better get used to that.

 

[luvthe9]

I missed what by a mile? That the longer you work under LOA 93 the larger and larger percent of your career will be at inferior wages? No I got that right.

Those are the facts today and going forward. Until the east accepts the Nicolai and usapa somehow manages to get a new contract the east will be at inferior wages. Everyday that you remain where you are at is another day that balance shifts to the east being the drag on the industry.

Until the east accepts the Nicolau... You have as much a chance of that as your auto repair shop accepting Confederate Money. Past, over and done with. No value in any transaction.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

2 mil on a lawsuit that got tossed, sorry thats a clock cleaner, Luvthe9 is right on BTW you might ask Marty if he would except the ole confed dollar!MM!

 

[luvthe9]

Massive clock cleaning! You would think one of the University of Phoenix pilot /lawyer types would have raised the flag from the back of the classroom! Marty got one heck of a payday for a bowl of unripe fruit!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You westies should start a card drive if you want to vote so bad, cmon all that bravado just think you could sell Krispy Kreme donuts and Intergrity Matters t's and blame Usapa for lack of a contract,global warming, the souths loss at gettysburg, and the crushing Superbowl loss of the Cardinals! MM!

 

[Freebird]

You westies should start a card drive if you want to vote so bad, cmon all that bravado just think you could sell Krispy Kreme donuts and Intergrity Matters t's and blame Usapa for lack of a contract,global warming, the souths loss at gettysburg, and the crushing Superbowl loss of the Cardinals! MM!

Your fear and doubt are clearly stated in your response.

What are you afraid of? A contract may pass? Prove your resolve, or lack thereof.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Sure will, be glad to vote, Usapa,doh, see how easy it is!MM, ps I know voting can be a scary thing but it really is quite simple!

 

[john john]

Wrong. You are still at the bottom of the list and still the junior man.

Your seniority has not increased at all in ten years.

Not the case is it
Thanks for making the point