US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[PullUp]

Pullup's story is a fairy tale, just like Cinderella. Great entertainment but no connection to reality.

Call it what you want, but it is the truth.

 

[PullUp]

It is completely understandable that the east is upset.

The problem is who they are upset with, and their unfortunate behavior as a result of their misguided anger.

The Nicolau award did not devastate their careers as they claim. Your friend was not harmed by the Nic, s/he was harmed by the preceding years of bankruptcies and mismanagement, September 11, 2001, and a whole host of other unfortunate events that had befallen USAirways and our industry in general. The Nic is simply the result of those events quantified into a non-escapable reality of which the east is in denial.

Prior to the merger, they could hold out hope that somehow their airline would rebound and return to former status. But that was not in the cards. After the merger, they could individually hope for a DOH integration, that would propel them above 1500+ other pilots, and they could regain their 1986 career expectation. Well, it was not 1986, it was 2007, and any reasonable, unbiased individual who looked at the situation ( The new company, ALPA, the mediator and the arbitrator) tried to explain to them that what they sought was unobtainable, and that they were really not in a position to be asking for it, much less demanding it.

The bottom line is Nic affirmed it is not all about the east '86 hire, or the furloughed MDA pilot, or the east recalls that cannot hold group II. It was about merging two groups, with two sets of expectations, positions and status (i.e. Seniority). The seniority was merged in an equitable manner and it should have been time to move on.

So your friend has plenty of reasons to be upset, but s/he has no excuse for being angry with Nicolau or the West pilot group.

Blah Blah Blah.
Its simple. Attrition was the property of the east and the Nic did not protect that. Windfall goes to the west. East guys who stuck around because they thought they'd move up the ladder are being held back and westies are getting the opportunity to bid ahead of them under the Nic.
That's why it'll never fly.

PS. My friend is not upset with the west pilots, just the Nic award.

 

[john john]

I know I guy that went from number 1 to 518 on the West,

on the 330

?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Read pages 27-28 of the Nicolau award. He gave you a six year fence on the international wide body flying. What more do you want? Wait, I forgot, you want everything.

 

[Phoenix]

Cmon, you know I post often.

I am in the east all the time, remember 24% of the West's flying is on "what would traditionally be considered an east route".

So what would you like me to inform the east pilots of? ....

What ever comes to your mind. Have confidence.. you'll make me proud.

 

[ROACLT]

Read pages 27-28 of the Nicolau award. He gave you a six year fence on the international wide body flying. What more do you want? Wait, I forgot, you want everything.

For people to have the option to bid it based on how long they have been around. What a novel union concept.

 

[xrated]

I know a guy who would have been number one on the list and under nic went to number 450, see him every morning when I shave.

I read a post about a guy who was going to retire at his airline #1 in seniority. Due to financial issues at his carrier, he was days away from unemployment. In came another carrier willing to merge with his financially trouble employer. The two merged, he will now retire #450 on the list.......one of the luckiest guys I've ever read about!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

This random bantor is extremely funny, BOTTOM LINE, NO JOINT CONTRACT = NO LIST, and that damages thing , obviously the SOUNDBITE to the 9th circuit didn't sink in! Where are the damages? NO timeline on seperate ops, the company TESTIFIED USAPA has bargained in " GOOD FAITH!" So where is it , THE RISK IS ALL ON OUR (WEST ) SIDE , we took it and trust me there is NO partner that will dance with this inept mngmnt( failed at 3 merger attempts !) how long do you think those hedge funds that control us will put up with that! NOT LONG! MM! HANG ON!

 

[767jetz]

Well, we have to put up with you driving your beemer into us all the time with your wisdom, thought you might enjoy a reality check. Just think , the right arbitrator might factor that money in over time. It adds up.

Sheesh! Now you've got a problem with my car? What don't you have a problem with?

Here's a piece of free advice... marry well and this job becomes much less stressful. B)
I certainly don't have all my eggs in one basket. Do you?

You are right about one thing, an arbitrator can always rule against you. That's why you are always better off settling your differences in mediation instead of arbitration. But walking close to the middle ground always helps your chances with an arbitrator as opposed to taking an extreme and inflexible stance.

 

[Ames]

Blah Blah Blah.
Its simple. Attrition was the property of the east and the Nic did not protect that. Windfall goes to the west. East guys who stuck around because they thought they'd move up the ladder are being held back and westies are getting the opportunity to bid ahead of them under the Nic.
That's why it'll never fly.

PS. My friend is not upset with the west pilots, just the Nic award.

Blah blah blah.
It's simple. Growth was the property of the west when liquidation was the property of the east. The nic protected that, as did the transition agreement. The east guys who stuck around because they thought they'd move up the ladder have hijacked the whole process. Now, whatever growth the company realized in the past few years has gone to the east and the tenets of the transition agreement have been violated, as proven by the TA-10 grievance. So, those east guys who stuck around have moved up the ladder, as evidenced by formerly furloughed east guys upgrading to captain while west captains downgrade to FO. Windfall goes to the east.

I am not upset with the Nic award. Just the east pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

..

I am not upset with the Nic award. Just the east pilots.

No! Really?!

 

[Freebird]

This random bantor is extremely funny, BOTTOM LINE, NO JOINT CONTRACT = NO LIST, and that damages thing , obviously the SOUNDBITE to the 9th circuit didn't sink in! Where are the damages? NO timeline on seperate ops, the company TESTIFIED USAPA has bargained in " GOOD FAITH!" So where is it , THE RISK IS ALL ON OUR (WEST ) SIDE , we took it and trust me there is NO partner that will dance with this inept mngmnt( failed at 3 merger attempts !) how long do you think those hedge funds that control us will put up with that! NOT LONG! MM! HANG ON!

What? A joke for you MM !

One Usapa leader says to the other "Hey, I think we're lost !!!" The other Usapa clown says, "At least we're making good time !!!"

Keep chasing your tail MM !!!

 

[nic4us]

Blah Blah Blah.
Its simple. Attrition was the property of the east and the Nic did not protect that. Windfall goes to the west. East guys who stuck around because they thought they'd move up the ladder are being held back and westies are getting the opportunity to bid ahead of them under the Nic.
That's why it'll never fly.

PS. My friend is not upset with the west pilots, just the Nic award.

Simple? Really?

Then why is it you do not understand the simple fact that Nic does protect east attrition. Being near the bottom, Colello gets to take advantage of all the east attrition that was saved by the merger,( not by his waiting around) and as a bonus, he gets to take advantage of 100% of the West attrition as well.

As I said in my Blah Blah Blah post, your friend has many reasons to be upset, glad to hear it is not directed at the West pilots.

 

[nic4us]

What ever comes to your mind. Have confidence.. you'll make me proud.

Mission accomplished!

Rode a van with a seemingly pleasant east captain. After studying his disgruntled and standoffish posture, brought on by the realization that he was going to have to ride with a West crew, I confronted him with the dreaded question. "are you going to xxxxx xxxxx hotel"? we exchanged some small talk on the trials of our just completed day, as I called to inquire on the whereabouts of our van. After a short wait we loaded up and headed for the layover. He had questions about the new Arizona immigration law. I spoke of relatives from his hometown, turns out he went to high school with my cousin.

Hope you are proud.

 

[Metroyet]

This random bantor is extremely funny, BOTTOM LINE, NO JOINT CONTRACT = NO LIST, and that damages thing , obviously the SOUNDBITE to the 9th circuit didn't sink in! Where are the damages? NO timeline on seperate ops, the company TESTIFIED USAPA has bargained in " GOOD FAITH!" So where is it , THE RISK IS ALL ON OUR (WEST ) SIDE , we took it and trust me there is NO partner that will dance with this inept mngmnt( failed at 3 merger attempts !) how long do you think those hedge funds that control us will put up with that! NOT LONG! MM! HANG ON!

I've asked you before and I'm fairly certain you haven't replied lucidly. What is the "risk" you're constantly referring to? Risk implies a downside...what is the downside for the West? Is the PERMANENT INJUNCTION a bad thing for the USAPA fighting West?

Plainly put, What is the Risk...I'd love to hear this.