US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

Who says ALPA is the controlling party in the integration? I agree with Reed Richards. This thing is now outside ALPA.How do you say ALPA is the driver when they got smoked off the property here?

Well I guess I am not on your ignore function!

I did not say ALPA was in control. I was replying to Flybynite, in the context of, if ALPA became the bargaining agent prior to a seniority arbitration between LCC and UAL, which is the most likely scenario, if something comes of these talks.

But lets just say usapa is still the representative body for LCC, in a LCC/UAL seniority integration. What list could usapa possibly pass except the Nic? What other list could they get The UAL NC to sign off on as the certified list of LCC? I mean really? usapa walks in, says here is this DOH list we made up on our own, after a binding arbitration occurred when we were formerly in the same union you are in, and are about to be in again, but no need to worry about that pending injunction filed by 1800 West pilots to halt these proceedings, they really have no case to sue the living daylights out of you and National, our little lawyer says so.

Wake up Swan, the UAL folks are not going to help the east out in this. They are going to be there to look out for their intrest, not yours, not mine, not east, not West. They will be at the table for themselves, and they are not going to buy off on some hairbrain scheme cooked up by Bradford and Seeham, because some 17 yr furloughed guy wanted to take a West pilots job.

 

[nic4us]

Do you really believe UAL pilots would allow the Nic to be a possible template for them to then get sodomized with? They are going to walk from that thing as fast as they can. They could do better with any method than that. Believe me, they are very aware of the age of the East. All you need are fences, and some time and that issue is dealt with. If they let you get away with the Nic, then they get the worst possible outcome. A guy with 3 yrs going ahead of a 20yr. UAL . No way.

Again with the misinformation.

Who would this 3 year guy be? AWA stopped hiring in 2005 in order to accomodate your furloughs when we aquired you. I do not know how far back our furloughs now go but, this is 2010 so the most junior pilot on the property would have like 6 years. And you are right, ther is no way the most junior pilot on the property would go ahead of UAL captains and their 20 years. KInd of in the same way the most junior east pilots and furloughs did not go ahead of the West Captains.

 

[Reed Richards]

Admission!

http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

Had a United Airbus Captain on the jumpseat last month. 19 years and he's 4 from the bottom in JFK.

I'm sure that 19 year UA Captain can't wait to integrate with US by DOH so a bunch of East pilots who were furloughed 3 years ago can go ahead of him...

Jim

 

[BLT]

United has 113 widebodies. US Airways has 26.

 

[luvn737s]

A 19 year A320 CA is what, 1/2 way up the seniority list (on equivalent equipment). So he would be integrated with a pilot 50% up the list on west and 50% on the east (on equivalent equipment).

Maybe that's why they don't call it a Longevity Integration.

How much goodwill have the US pilots engendered with the UA pilots? Have the 747-400 manuals arrived yet (in large print edition)?

Additionally, as soon as there is confirmation that the merger is under way, look for a representation election on the US side to occur. And how many on the east want to see lil' old USAPA that has spent it's whole wad on Seham facing the ALPA warchest ? USAPA will lose and lose epically. Then under one union a seniority integration will be hammered out with Cleary and Co. nowhere to be seen. Adults will regain control of the proceedings and the long nightmare called USAPA will be behind us. The timing could not be more perfect!

Thank you United!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I get all my info from from the same source the delusional East pilots get it, the difference, is that I dont put any spin on it.

Keep saving your money for the damages trial. Maybe you can get a higher paid jetBlue pilot to loan you some money...find an E 190 pilot in the 5 year range, the one who makes more than you. After your illustrious career at AAA.

I've told you guys before. I already earn more per hour than any west pilot, and my career earnings so far have left you so deep in the gutter by comparison that all I can feel is pity for your little "career" at American West.

 

[nic4us]

A 19 year A320 CA is what, 1/2 way up the seniority list (on equivalent equipment). So he would be integrated with a pilot 50% up the list on west and 50% on the east (on equivalent equipment).

Maybe that's why they don't call it a Longevity Integration.

Coincidentally, a junior West a320 captain has between 14 and 20 years, and is roughly 50% on the Nic.

 

[Metroyet]

Admission!

http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/

RR

Reopen the Transition Agreement?!! That was between two airlines that BOTH no longer exist! There is no "West" remember? Remember that single carrier status that Bradford wanted so badly? You got it. There is no East/West negotiating teams...remember?!! This "update" is just the same old dog-pile drivel, "there's light at the end of the tunnel" B.S. that has infected your ranks for years. This is nothing but a projected wish...totally disconnected from reality and common sense.

It was your goal to DESTROY the critical component of the T.A. (dual ratification) and now you think you can ignore what you did and get yet ANOTHER do-over? Despite the Injunction?!!

You guys are nuts.

 

[nic4us]

I've told you guys before. I already earn more per hour than any west pilot, and my career earnings so far have left you so deep in the gutter by comparison that all I can feel is pity for your little "career" at American West.

"Pity me not because the light of day at close of day no longer walks the sky;"...Millay

I will ask again. Ever flown as an Air Force Thunderbird? Ever been the Director of Training, a Chief Pilot, Fleet Manager, VP of Flight Ops? We have those out here making a "career" at good old American West. Was the mispelling of the aquiring airline intentional?

Cause I am guessing your "career" is woefully unaccomplished and somewhat inadequate, if you have to boast about earnings, which may or may not exceed some of us out here at good old American Western who have had great "careers".

 

[spike99]

ALPA did not change its merger policy to DOH. They added some language that says something to the effect of " give consideration for length of service", but that is within the context of other considerations as well.

ALPA would have no other choice but to use the Nic as the seniority list for an integration between LCC and UAL. Frankly, usapa would have no other choice than the Nic either. There is no other list.

Even if the scenario that the West was some how spun off, the Nic would be used, and guess what there are 1880 West names on that list.

You are wrong. USAPA is not ALPA and Allegheny Mowhawk would govern the integration of the three seperate groups, per Federal Law. You are all very eager to say the NIC is the ALPA list, but every ALPA official was very clear in their statements, the list would only be valid with a ratified joint contract from each individual pilot group. What part of that process would suggest a change?

 

[Metroyet]

You are wrong. USAPA is not ALPA and Allegheny Mowhawk would govern the integration of the three seperate groups, per Federal Law. You are all very eager to say the NIC is the ALPA list, but every ALPA official was very clear in their statements, the list would only be valid with a ratified joint contract from each individual pilot group. What part of that process would suggest a change?

Read the Permanent Injunction Perry Mason. It's crystal clear. Nic is the list.

 

[spike99]

Read the Permanent Injunction Perry Mason. It's crystal clear. Nic is the list.

The Nic might be the list between East and West, even Wake said he couldn't make the East vote for a contract to include the list. I've asked before, but how many no votes before the honorable judge modifies his opinion? Secondly, I don't believe his opinion would mean anything in a subsequent merger. You may disagree, but if you say this can't be possible I'd appreciate the Law School you attended with a graduation date.

 

[ROACLT]

Sorry to rain on the parade,

With a Special MEC Update for Wednesday, April 7, 2010, this is
MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse.

The New York Times this afternoon published a story that reports that “UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge.” The story went on to say that United and US Airways “are deep in their merger discussions, though a transaction is not expected to be announced for at least several weeks.”

The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

As further substantiated information becomes available, we will pass it along. Please monitor your email inboxes for more from MEC Communications.

 

[Poug Darker]

You are wrong. USAPA is not ALPA and Allegheny Mowhawk would govern the integration of the three seperate groups, per Federal Law. You are all very eager to say the NIC is the ALPA list, but every ALPA official was very clear in their statements, the list would only be valid with a ratified joint contract from each individual pilot group. What part of that process would suggest a change?

Very correct, however, the United MEC has already done a strategic study of this very scenario and concluded that any merging of seniority lists will be negotiated and will not go to arbitration.
There is no combined list for LCC. To merge seniority, separate lists are the only method available. USAPA will be the representative body for the USAirways pilots, both east and west. And to preclude another DFR lawsuit, I'm sure they will do their very best to represent the best interests of the former AW pilot group.
Cheers.