US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[HPearlyretiree]

What would happen if US and UA pilots and the company had to agree to binding arbitration, and the UA pilots decided not to abide by it?

 

[cleardirect]

So before you guys get your panties in a wad over thinking that if this merger happens UAL is going to come running to you with DOH. Better think again. For those of you that believe UAL or ALPA has changed the merger policy to DOH/LOS really need to do some research.

Someone said that the west better be careful because there will be a negotiated seniority list. Not likely, this will definitely go to arbitration. The thing about this time around, everyone in the industry and arbitration world know who, what and how you guys operate. All of the loopholes will be closed this time.

The last UAL seniority list that I saw from 2007 is very interesting. Dean Colello was the senior furloughed east pilot (insert tears) hired in 1988 he had 17 years, now has 22 years.

Over at UAL on the 2007 list 7995 currently 1400 furloughed. The person on the UAL that was hired on the same day as Colello in 1988 is number 1462 out of 7995, or 18.2%.

For all you dreamers show of hands how many of you east pilot think that there is any way the UAL is going to ingrate by DOH? The majority of east pilots in the top 20% of their list and letting the rest of both UAL and west pilots to merger in the bottom 80%. Not on your life.

Don’t forget some other numbers. UAL has 113 WB and 249 NB. USA has 26 WB and 321 NB. Best I can see is the WB go to UAL we become domestic pilots. Some sort of relative seniority with fences around the WB.

Something else to remember, UAL is bigger than us so what have we heard for the last 5 years? Majority rules, they are the majority not you this time.

No this is going to arbitration because there is no way UAL is going to accept or agree to DOH/LOS. Plus the Nicolau list will be the list we use. At least you had better hope that is the list we use. Otherwise that 517 windfall that the east got goes away. Then we have three lists all with a number one guy with a career expectation. Three lists that get ratioed in not two.

Possible integration. Fence the WB off for UAL. Start at the top 8 UAL 3 east 1.5 west and so on to the bottom. Here is a real integrity question for you east guys. What do you do with the 1400 UAL furloughed pilots? Do you do what you have been screaming for, place them on the list? Do you put them on the bottom because they do not ring a job to the party? What would you do?

 

[CallawayGolf]

You mean we can get rid of that crappy "CACKTISS" callsign?!!
Yippee!!

It's a long way off from knowing what callsign the new company would use. Far more certain would be the elimination of USAPA which has accomplished worse than nothing over the past two years, except of course to enrich Seham at the pliots' expense.

 

[signals]

Since we must consider this a rumor...although I predicted it from time to time...one must consider what an ALPA majority will mean to US's current union situation?

 

[nic4us]

You mean we can get rid of that crappy "CACKTISS" callsign?!!
Yippee!!

Not so fast.

Lets see, we need a holding company like Barbell Aquisition to do the deal and not trigger east coc. Oh, wait, we already have one, it is called Barbell Aquisition, and it mergered into America West Holdings Inc, which then aquired USAirways group, and to the best of my knowledge is still a part of USAirways group.

So just like last time, the investors put their money into Barbell, which is part of AWE, which is part of LCC. In a reverse aquisition, UAL is aquired by AWE, which merges with and into UAL corp, and keeps AWE as the ATC designator. and "Cactus" precedes atc radio calls on a truely global basis, mostly just to upset the French

 

[hp_fa]

** If ** this proposed merger were to go through here is what I believe will be the end result in the pilot integration.

1. The Nicolau list is dusted off and brought current by dropping any pilots who have retired, left the company or moved to management and lost their position on the union seniority list.
2. UAL creates their seniority list.
3. Any negotiations occur from those lists.

Assuming that the 9th does not toss the case and/or remove the permanent injunction this will end up back in Judge Wake's court room and it may well be USAPA that files the paperwork to get Judge Wake back to work. (Ironic how things can work out.)

 

[aquagreen73s]

Something else to remember, UAL is bigger than us so what have we heard for the last 5 years? Majority rules, they are the majority not you this time.

Right-o my good friend, majority does rule regardless of what an arbitrator says. And it's a good thing for UAL pilots that seniority is like crew meals because with their numbers and their number of widebodies, they will be immune to any unpalatable decisions made by pesky arbitrators!

I'm thinking there will be some sort of integration based on reverse alpahbetical order of the stock symbols: UAL, then LCC, then AWA, then AAA. Mmmm. Just like a tasty crew meal. But the only question I have is how they (UAL) will be able to manage to hire off Lee Seham when UAL pilots form their own union and try to cram their version of a seniority list down US Air pilots' throats? After all, Seham is the only attorney in the world who pushes such (absurd) arguments, so how does United get him coming off his representation of USAPA? Hmmm, let me put my thinking cap on.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

** If ** this proposed merger were to go through here is what I believe will be the end result in the pilot integration.

1. The Nicolau list is dusted off and brought current by dropping any pilots who have retired, left the company or moved to management and lost their position on the union seniority list.
2. UAL creates their seniority list.
3. Any negotiations occur from those lists.

Assuming that the 9th does not toss the case and/or remove the permanent injunction this will end up back in Judge Wake's court room and it may well be USAPA that files the paperwork to get Judge Wake back to work. (Ironic how things can work out.)

Pretty much accurate, nic is not going away. Nor are all them UA furloughed guys who would love to get the USAPA treatment and be put in at high seniority...oh the irony!

 

[Freebird]

Pretty much accurate, nic is not going away. Nor are all them UA furloughed guys who would love to get the USAPA treatment and be put in at high seniority...oh the irony!

Just be sure to keep a list of the east guys, so when they're flying F/O or AFO for you, you'll know who you can trust. Or not.

The East has played its cards and have shown the world how low they are willing to stoop, at their own expense, to enrichen Seham and kiss Cleary's ring...you know the one.

 

[Poug Darker]

It's a long way off from knowing what callsign the new company would use. Far more certain would be the elimination of USAPA which has accomplished worse than nothing over the past two years, except of course to enrich Seham at the pliots' expense.

"CACKTISS" is still a stupid callsign. What is painted above the windows on the outside of the airplane should be the callsign, for many reasons.
I'm sure the UAL guys will love changing to "CACKTISS". Not.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What is painted above the windows on the outside of the airplane should be the callsign, for many reasons.

Better let BA know they've been doing it wrong all these years...and don't forget all the affiliated express carriers either...

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

"Pity me not because the light of day at close of day no longer walks the sky;"...Millay

I will ask again. Ever flown as an Air Force Thunderbird? Ever been the Director of Training, a Chief Pilot, Fleet Manager, VP of Flight Ops? We have those out here making a "career" at good old American West. Was the mispelling of the aquiring airline intentional?

Cause I am guessing your "career" is woefully unaccomplished and somewhat inadequate, if you have to boast about earnings, which may or may not exceed some of us out here at good old American Western who have had great "careers".

All these positions are superfluous to seniority integration. (I particular like the Thunderbirds comment....how much higher on the seniority list at American West does a tour with the Thunderbirds get you?)

And those guys/gals in those position at the airline are not making their careers as pilots, unless you call flying a big steel desk being a pilot.

 

[luvthe9]

Pretty much accurate, nic is not going away. Nor are all them UA furloughed guys who would love to get the USAPA treatment and be put in at high seniority...oh the irony!

I have not seen such jubilation from the west since April 2007, when the ill fated Nicalou Award was attempted.

 

[nic4us]

All these positions are superfluous to seniority integration. (I particular like the Thunderbirds comment....how much higher on the seniority list at American West does a tour with the Thunderbirds get you?)

And those guys/gals in those position at the airline are not making their careers as pilots, unless you call flying a big steel desk being a pilot.

The Thunderbirds tour gets you lower on the seniority list, because you spent the early part of your career serving your country in a recruiting capacity, rather than having daddy get you a job at a commuter airline flying the convair, or dc9 or bac-111 or whatever they would let daddy's boy pull gear in.

I am just saying, compensation is only part of career "earnings".

 

[Metroyet]

I have not seen such jubilation from the west since April 2007, when the ill fated Nicalou Award was attempted.

Care to expand on exactly how an Arbitrated award is "ill fated". That term generally implies some kind of demise. The Permanent Injunction guarantees that there is no "ill fate".