US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Poug , 3 way deal now, remember NO MPLEMENTED LIST, and the fact ALPA soon to issue its DOH, LOS lst WOW , uphill battle for me! MM

 

[spike99]

Very correct, however, the United MEC has already done a strategic study of this very scenario and concluded that any merging of seniority lists will be negotiated and will not go to arbitration.
There is no combined list for LCC. To merge seniority, separate lists are the only method available. USAPA will be the representative body for the USAirways pilots, both east and west. And to preclude another DFR lawsuit, I'm sure they will do their very best to represent the best interests of the former AW pilot group.
Cheers.

I agree, a DOH/LOS list would probably be integrated with the appropriate fences. Which IMHO was what should have happenned in the first place, but as one of the worthless I didn't get a vote.

 

[Poug Darker]

With a Special MEC Update for Wednesday, April 7, 2010, this is
MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse.
Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

Yes, but if the choice is to merge and stay in business, or not merge, run out of cash and shut down...
IMHO, if there are serious talks going on it is because the UAL upper management and BOD came to Doug - !
This makes all the bravado spewn by the UAL MEC chair just puffery.
Makes no difference in the end when you're talking survival.
Cheers

 

[Poug Darker]

I agree, a DOH/LOS list would probably be integrated with the appropriate fences. Which IMHO was what should have happenned in the first place, but as one of the worthless I didn't get a vote.

Only 'worthless' in the eyes of ALPA.

Remember that.

Repeat it back to yourself anytime your fellow aviators even suggest that ALPA is a 'good' deal.

Because in ALPA's eyes, you don't count and they don't care.

Long live USAPA.

Cheers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Makes no difference in the end when you're talking survival.
Cheers

And US in arguably in worse shape than UA...who lost less last year sorry - UA lost more (looked at the wrong line), has a larger percentage of annual expenses in cash on hand, etc.

Jim

 

[spike99]

Only 'worthless' in the eyes of ALPA.

Remember that.

Repeat it back to yourself anytime your fellow aviators even suggest that ALPA is a 'good' deal.

Because in ALPA's eyes, you don't count and they don't care.

Long live USAPA.

Cheers.

Don't worry, I won't forget. The best thing to happen to the US Airways pilots was the election of USAPA, and I'll never vote for the union which sold our profession down the river for an office job and big paycheck in Herndon.

 

[nic4us]

You are wrong. USAPA is not ALPA and Allegheny Mowhawk would govern the integration of the three seperate groups, per Federal Law. You are all very eager to say the NIC is the ALPA list, but every ALPA official was very clear in their statements, the list would only be valid with a ratified joint contract from each individual pilot group. What part of that process would suggest a change?

Uh, no. If it came to Allegheny Mowhawk, or any other McCaskill-Bond mandated format,( like ALPA merger policy), Federal Law would say there are two groups not three. UAL pilots and LCC pilots. Every ALPA official, and every company official were quite clear, and none said the Nic was not yet valid. The Nic list is the valid list, submitted by ALPA as meeting its criteria, and accepted by the company as meeting its criteria. There are company letters stating as such, and company testimony in a federal trial validating that the Nic list is the official pilot seniority list of LCC. What you are mistaking as validity is the the Transition agreement provision to not use the valid list until such a time that operational pilot integration was complete which includes a joint contract.

Ask yourself this, why did ALPA submit the list to the company if it were not "valid"?

 

[nic4us]

Poug , 3 way deal now, remember NO MPLEMENTED LIST, and the fact ALPA soon to issue its DOH, LOS lst WOW , uphill battle for me! MM

3 way deal? is a third airline in the mix? ever heard of a thing called single-carrier status? It is how that low life usapa group were able to get an NMB election at LCC.

 

[luvn737s]

I agree, a DOH/LOS list would probably be integrated with the appropriate fences. Which IMHO was what should have happenned in the first place, but as one of the worthless I didn't get a vote.

<snif, sniff> I'm sorry, but your tale of woe brought me to tears. Of course Cleary won't let you vote on anything substantive anyhow, PLUS he hasn't a fraction of the cash necessary to take on UAALPA. His Swan Song will be an ernormous assessment to bolster a merger fund. The rank and file will tell him to stuff it at the Representation Election.

Who has a good deal at printing up cards?

 

[luvn737s]

Don't worry, I won't forget. The best thing to happen to the US Airways pilots was the election of USAPA, and I'll never vote for the union which sold our profession down the river for an office job and big paycheck in Herndon.

49% of your fellow AFO's can join you if it makes them feel any better. But sooner or later USAPA's either going to have to produce or be replaced.

Wait, I guess that would be sooner.

 

[john john]

Sorry to rain on the parade,

With a Special MEC Update for Wednesday, April 7, 2010, this is
MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse.


The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation.
MEC Communications.

Hey ALPA leaders
I wouldn’t take it serious you know like last time HP/US

 

[Freighterguynow]

Sorry to rain on the parade,


The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

It may not be up to Wendy ....

Report: U.S. Airways in talks to buy United

An alert posted on the newspaper's website said US Airways would be the acquirer,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36236826/ns/business-us_business/

 

[BoeingBoy]

An alert posted on the newspaper's website said US Airways would be the acquirer,

The necessary step to circumvent the East contract CoC language - have US Airways Group be, at least on paper, the surviving holding company. Of course, that could put the UA pilots (and possibly other UA work groups) in the driver's seat depending on the CoC language in their contract.

I can see it - US Airways Group d.b.a United Airlines...if these rumors have any substance behind them watch for US to form a new "Barbell" type division whose only purpose to to merge with UAL.

Jim

 

[US Oringinal]

Sorry to rain on the parade,

With a Special MEC Update for Wednesday, April 7, 2010, this is
MEC Chairman Captain Wendy Morse.

The New York Times this afternoon published a story that reports that “UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge.” The story went on to say that United and US Airways “are deep in their merger discussions, though a transaction is not expected to be announced for at least several weeks.”

The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

As further substantiated information becomes available, we will pass it along. Please monitor your email inboxes for more from MEC Communications.

I think it's important to focus on what Ms. Morse does NOT say. She does NOT say the United MEC is against a merger with US. She also doesn't say that there haven't been meaningul discussions...she says "presently" there are no meaningful discussions with US Airways.
It should be no secret to her that UA's mgmt. has long seen(short of a UA/CO merger) a UA/US merger as inevitable. IMHO, there is a distinct possiblity that Tilton and UA's mgmt may have finally convinced the UA ALPA MEC that a merger WOULD be in the best, long-term interests of UA pilots. I can't see US or UA pursuing this again without having at least some type of concensus with ALPA leadership at UA.
Although not ideal, the financials of the deal do make sense and the fact is that UA and US in their current states may not be viable long-term entities without a merger.....maybe this is what the union leadership at both airlines should be focussed on.....long-term survival

 

[Poug Darker]

I
An alert posted on the newspaper's website said US Airways would be the acquirer,

You mean we can get rid of that crappy "CACKTISS" callsign?!!
Yippee!!