US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

And that assumption would likely be wrong. The name of the new airline does not trigger a COC. The name US Airways was retained primarily because it communicated a domestic/international carrier better than AWA. It also saved quite a few bucks not having to change all the airport signs and other hard-printed material that had the US name and logo on it. I believe Doug has said that they considered a brand new name for the new company but determined it to be an unnecessary expense given the more unavoidable costs of merging the two companies. He might have done it differently if he had to do it all over again.

Also, Doug clearly stated that if US completed its hostile takeover of DL, that the new company would assume the name Delta. I don’t recall ALPA or anyone else bringing up concerns that a name change or a direct acquisition would trigger COC in that transaction. The facts are that COC was already arbitrated in favor of the company’s position for other labor groups and management knows how to structure a deal to get the best outcome for the airline. USAPA supporters just desperately want something to make them feel superior and self-important while the real world crumbles around them.

That was a long post but you did not reveal or address how COC is contractually defined, thus it would seam your speculation about its enforcement or lack thereof was a bit spurious. But I enjoyed reading it such as it was.

 

[hp_fa]

They plan on publishing all of their unedited financial information on June 39th.

Was that a typo?

 

[CallawayGolf]

That was a long post but you did not reveal or address how COC is contractually defined, thus it would seam your speculation about its enforcement or lack thereof was a bit spurious. But I enjoyed reading it such as it was.

Well it seems ClearDirect published the exact COC provisions. Not so spurious after all, hmm?

Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[nic4us]

What makes you think change of control is coincident to change in the union contracts?

I do not.

 

[Reed Richards]

Even the smartest man in the world needs a little daily entertainment, (and no, I don’t mean that as a dig at Sue, I just cannot always find her) and I admittedly am having a hard time staying away from this forum. I gave my extended report on how I viewed the goings on at the 9th last December, and took a powder for months, I simply saw no need to participate here ad nausium until the 9th ruled. I had no idea it would take so long. No changes there on my original logic..it will be what it is ,whenever they choose to rule. Hopefully, everyone will be just a little unhappy when they rule. Though I suspect that will not be the case, expectations and all. The importance of that ruling is fading by the day..and I don’t mean that to incite anger…it simply is becoming irrelevant. A ruling for either camp will not change things quick enough to matter.

Since there is really nothing new to say about all things Ninth, I am going to jump in and restart my previous discussion about plan B’s. Current events point to big changes ahead. Those of us that have been through some actual completed airline mergers ( three for me, not counting this latest fiasco) can read the tea leaves, and we don’t mean Management saying over and over that mergers are “best.” This is the real deal here guys, something is looming.

Parker and now our east centric reporter Ted Reed, for the Street.com, have both commented recently on current East scope. This is where the rubber hits the road guys and gals, as Parker, for the first time since he arrived on the scene, has lost his cover with the East pilots. The resolve of the East pilots has been misread quite a few times in the last years…I would note especially all things NMB, Dues collection, and the Fuel School debacle as three of our finest hours..with the understanding most of those in our arid regions never really “got” the issues of using the training department for discipline, and never will.

I only know one of the contributors to the following site, but really believe these guys get it. How about getting educated on the differences in East and West Scope, and lets all meet here back at the playground to compare and contrast. http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/?m=200909

Basically, my belief is the real negotiations will take place here on the East, not because we are better pilots, have better looking wives (well, maybe I do), or were smarter than someone else to get hired here…no, the simple fact is management cannot enrich themselves without now dealing with East Scope, and that puts the East pilots in the center ring. Hope you all enjoy the show, because AWA pilots will simply have nothing to offer in the coming negotiations. That is my belief. I challenge any of you, without resorting to your “who saved who” or “final and binding” to give me any reason West pilots have any leverage going forward.

And totally unrelated..I don’t understand the questions about the USAPA LM2 filing. As per the CBL, the fiscal year ends 31 March, and as filed with the DOL, USAPA has until 30 June to submit their LM2. Topic for another day, but the Obama administration as publically stated they are backing off on prompt enforcement of all these reports, look for them to go away in their current form. USAPA will file on time.

RR

 

[hp_fa]

My interest in the LM-2 is as I said in my post, SSM&P.

 

[Reed Richards]

My interest in the LM-2 is as I said in my post, SSM&P.

First of all, thanks for your reply to my question prior to Easter...much appreciated.

I have looked closely at the last two USAPA LM2's, and quite frankly it’s a hard read. The numbers spent on Addington, Breeger, and RICO are hard to separate, especially since the fiscal year of USAPA is now on its third iteration in 3 years, and there is a three month grace period for filings.

That said, and with a little backroom information and some interpellation..the total amount of legal billing (not payment!) combined from both sides for the above three cases (total, all, everything on both sides..and I think it is actually less on the West) does not even come close to the excess dues now taken in at USAPA vs. ALPA for just 2009. SSPM has been paid in full, that starting about a year ago going forward, at least that is what I am told. Once the 2M+ in West back dues was collected, it was smooth sailing, and continues to be financially for USAPA.

In fact, were it not for current (and I understand necessary) litigation involving the Association...dues rates would have been reduced a year ago and there would have been no need for any assessments (with the understanding germane calculations might have changed.)

Just my humble and best guess assessment of USAPA finances. I could be wrong.

I will have to call Lee Seham on his yacht to confirm these observations, though I don’t think he has any reason to take my call, even me being a superhero. And he does not like it when the 4 of us drop in unannounced.

RR

 

[CallawayGolf]

First of all, thanks for your reply to my question prior to Easter...much appreciated.

I have looked closely at the last two USAPA LM2's, and quite frankly it’s a hard read. The numbers spent on Addington, Breeger, and RICO are hard to separate, especially since the fiscal year of USAPA is now on its third iteration in 3 years, and there is a three month grace period for filings.

That said, and with a little backroom information and some interpellation..the total amount of legal billing (not payment!) combined from both sides for the above three cases (total, all, everything on both sides..and I think it is actually less on the West) does not even come close to the excess dues now taken in at USAPA vs. ALPA for just 2009. SSPM has been paid in full, that starting about a year ago going forward, at least that is what I am told. Once the 2M+ in West back dues was collected, it was smooth sailing, and continues to be financially for USAPA.

In fact, were it not for current (and I understand necessary) litigation involving the Association...dues rates would have been reduced a year ago and there would have been no need for any assessments (with the understanding germane calculations might have changed.)

Just my humble and best guess assessment of USAPA finances. I could be wrong.

I will have to call Lee Seham on his yacht to confirm these observations, though I don’t think he has any reason to take my call, even me being a superhero. And he does not like it when the 4 of us drop in unannounced.

RR

Your post reminds me of an abused wife who comes out to defend her husband who then goes home and then ends up in the hospital after he beats her again. Or maybe it's like Hillary Clinton who says "I'm not some Loretta Lynn stand by your man woman" as she publicly proclaims her philandering husband to be completely faithful. In both cases everyone but the willing victim seems to know the truth about the unscrupulous and abhorrent actions of their partner of choice.

 

[Metroyet]

Was that a typo?

No. Just sarcasm.

 

[Poug Darker]

What makes you guys think that the next one will be different? Other than your self important attitude?

Because nobody else wants to paint their planes with "USAirways" name or color scheme. To circumvent the CoC provision, USAirways must be the surviving carrier, if more than 20% of the airline is sold off.
Let's see...American? Nah. United? No. Delta? I don't think so. Anyone? The probability is next to zero....
Cheers.

 

[hp_fa]

First of all, thanks for your reply to my question prior to Easter...much appreciated.

You are most welcome.

I have looked closely at the last two USAPA LM2's, and quite frankly it’s a hard read. The numbers spent on Addington, Breeger, and RICO are hard to separate, especially since the fiscal year of USAPA is now on its third iteration in 3 years, and there is a three month grace period for filings.

The last LM-2 came out 6-8 weeks after the trial. That LM-2 did not include much of the expenses incurred just before the trial, with the last bills included being dated February, 2008. There was a lot of discussion aboiut just how much the Addington trial cost through the end of the trial. Some harsh words were tossed my way because of my estimated trial costs and fees and I have waited a year to find out if I was correct or incorrect. I also know that the Cactus 18 folks will be interested in how much was spent on their lawsuit. It is just one of those things where the truth eventually surfaces.

Fly safe.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe there's time to stop payment on that dues check.

Yes. Please do that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No. Just sarcasm.

Sarcasm would have been "June 31."

June 39 is just weird.

 

[Metroyet]

Sarcasm would have been "June 31."

June 39 is just weird.

June 31st is subtle. USAPA is Subtle like a carbomb. June 39th is more funny because it is as absurd as your fake union. Get it? It's a Joke....kind of.

 

[BoeingBoy]

To circumvent the CoC provision, USAirways must be the surviving carrier, if more than 20% of the airline is sold off.

Actually both are wrong. Perhaps some of that comes from the fragmentation language instead of the CoC language...

Jim