US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

And that assumption would likely be wrong. The name of the new airline does not trigger a COC. The name US Airways was retained primarily because it communicated a domestic/international carrier better than AWA. It also saved quite a few bucks not having to change all the airport signs and other hard-printed material that had the US name and logo on it. I believe Doug has said that they considered a brand new name for the new company but determined it to be an unnecessary expense given the more unavoidable costs of merging the two companies. He might have done it differently if he had to do it all over again.

Also, Doug clearly stated that if US completed its hostile takeover of DL, that the new company would assume the name Delta. I don’t recall ALPA or anyone else bringing up concerns that a name change or a direct acquisition would trigger COC in that transaction. The facts are that COC was already arbitrated in favor of the company’s position for other labor groups and management knows how to structure a deal to get the best outcome for the airline. USAPA supporters just desperately want something to make them feel superior and self-important while the real world crumbles around them.

USAPA supporters have the intelligence and understanding that it is the OPERATING CERTIFICATE used that determines the COC. Whose operating certificate did this outfit end up using?? Thats right!!!

 

[CallawayGolf]

USAPA supporters have the intelligence and understanding that it is the OPERATING CERTIFICATE used that determines the COC. Whose operating certificate did this outfit end up using?? Thats right!!!

Sounds fair. Can you cite the exact text from the CBA that references OPERATING CERTIFICATE as it relates to COC? That would certainly go along way to affirming your position.

Thanks,

CG

 

[Black Swan]

I have not read the Change of control language. However, if AA merged with LCC, and was the surviving carrier, which as you point out is most likely, maintaining dual carrier status until there is a new contract would prevent your coc language from triggering. Or worse, the new union, the APA could give them relief from the contract while they throw us under the bus on seniority integration.

Yes, and APA would not be so boneheaded to try and do what you did under ALPA, and maintain two different pay scales, that would divide the group. Lets' hope if it does happen, it is AA and not UAL. That way we can keep ALPA off our property forever. Then the NIC gets trashed too. Nice.

 

[nic4us]

Yes, and APA would not be so boneheaded to try and do what you did under ALPA, and maintain two different pay scales, that would divide the group. Lets' hope if it does happen, it is AA and not UAL. That way we can keep ALPA off our property forever. Then the NIC gets trashed too. Nice.

Just to set the record straight, initially the West supported parity, and the company was unwilling to pay. Once the east broke their contractual obligation to attend joint negotiations and did not show for meetings, then the West supported the company's decision to reach parity through a joint contract. so how about you quitrewritting history?

 

[Coach Cabin]

As a courtesy to one of our members, here is a link to a news story about the pilots' dispute. Please discuss here, and do NOT start a separate thread.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10718204/1/us-airways-pilot-contract-threatens-merger.html


Thank you.

Why would the company be obligated to honor snapbacks? I mean that was negotiated by the PREVIOUS bargaining agent who is no longer on the property.

 

[Freebird]

Why would the company be obligated to honor snapbacks? I mean that was negotiated by the PREVIOUS bargaining agent who is no longer on the property.

April 6th, 2010 and Usapa still sucks. Hows that new contract coming along Cleary? Remember....Negotiate in good faith. Or are you still afraid to put a contract up for a vote?

 

[700UW]

The COC has nothing to do with the operating certificate, the COC has to do with the financial governance of the company, I will see if I can find the IAM/US Arbitration COC Decision.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Keep going though – these kinds of posts are always good for a laugh if nothing else.

Funny thing. We on the east feel the same way about your posts. Laughter is the best medicine. Your posts should be written on a prescription pad. (Way too powerfully hilarious for over-the-counter stuff.)

 

[cleardirect]

2. In the event that, through a single transaction or in multi-step related transactions (i) securities which constitute and/or are then-currently exchangeable into, exercisable for, or convertible into 50 percent or more of Denominator Common Stock (as defined below), and/or (ii) 50 percent or more of the value of the assets, of the Company or US Airways Group, and/or (iii) Control of the Company or US Airways Group as defined in Section 1(J) below, are acquired or held by a single purchaser (or a group of purchasers acting in concert) (any such transaction(s) referred to as a "Change in Control"), the Association shall, in addition to all other rights, thereupon have the right in its sole discretion, upon written notice to the Company within 60 days of 1 written notice of such transaction, to extend the duration of the Agreement for one, two or three years at the Association's option, past the amendable date of the Agreement with across-the4 board wage increases of four and one half percent (4.5%) on January 2, 2003 and each annual anniversary of the amendable date thereafter (i.e., on January 2, 2004, January 2, 2005, January 2, 2006). For purposes of this Section, Denominator Common Stock is the common stock of US Airways Group then outstanding and the common stock issuable on exchange, exercise, and/or conversion of securities of the Company or US Airways Group which are then currently exchangeable into, exercisable for, or convertible into such common stock.

Here is the language that defines change of control. I do not see one mention of operating certificate. Could it be that someone was misinformed about the facts or just BS’ing their way through another debate?

 

[700UW]

I found a quick explanation the decision link was bad I will keep looking.

January 7, 2008

Arbitration Panel Denies Change in Control Grievance

To : All IAM Members Employed By US Airways

Dear Sisters and Brothers :

The System Board of Adjustment created to resolve the Machinist Union’s Change in Control grievance today issued its decision. The neutral arbitrator, Richard I. Bloch, sided with US Airways and denied the grievance.

The issues surrounding the grievance were very complex. Arguments to the System Board involved different interpretations of the contract language, bankruptcy law and Delaware corporate law (where US Airways is incorporated). The Machinists union received differing opinions from legal experts regarding our chances of ultimately prevailing in the grievance. Because the potential stakes were so high, however, we had to go forward with the case even if our chances of winning were slim. Yet, the IAM never viewed the Change in Control grievance as the solution to all the membership’s issues.

While the IAM fought for a favorable resolution of the grievance, we simultaneously worked to reach negotiated transition agreements to improve pay, benefits and working conditions for all IAM-represented employees. Even winning the Change in Control arbitration would not have addressed pay inequities between East and West employees, fair seniority integration, job security improvements, and better and more secure pensions. Our bargaining efforts resulted in a tentative agreement for Fleet Service that, although ultimately rejected by the membership, would have significantly improved wages and job security in exchange for withdrawing the Change in Control grievance for Fleet Service employees.

Traditional Railway Labor Act bargaining is not scheduled to begin until late 2009 when the current East agreements become amendable. With the National Mediation Board having ruled that both East and West employee groups are combined under a single carrier, any efforts to reach an agreement that does not cover both groups would be fruitless and impractical. Only the current transition negotiations for the combined groups can achieve any gains prior to traditional negotiations, which won’t start until nearly two years from now.

Airline industry conditions, and the situation at US Airways in particular, have deteriorated in the last year, and those conditions could be even worse when traditional bargaining begins. The America West-US Airways merger presented a unique opportunity to address many of the membership’s issues prior to the amendable dates in our agreements, and that window still exists, but the bargaining environment is changing daily.

Therefore, in an attempt to improve the financial and working conditions of IAM members, direct negotiations with US Airways will resume. District 141 will return to the bargaining table January 22, 23 and 24 2008 and District 142 will continue bargaining January 29, 30 and 31, 2008.

Full membership solidarity is essential for the IAM to succeed in this bargaining. East and West, Fleet and Maintenance – we must all be united in our common goal of retrieving what was taken from us and making a career at US Airways a long-term, profitable endeavor.

 

[luvn737s]

My latest edition of the Puke-litzer Prize winning "Rusty Captain" or whatever USAPA like to call their house organ, makes no mention of any training pay issue going on in PHX. Must be that USAPA's only an east-pilot's union.

Maybe there's time to stop payment on that dues check.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Funny thing. We on the east feel the same way about your posts. Laughter is the best medicine. Your posts should be written on a prescription pad. (Way too powerfully hilarious for over-the-counter stuff.)

Glad to be a source of laughter for you. Please be sure to let us know if you find yourself laughing on the day the 9th rules - whatever the outcome may be. While you're at it you might as well tell us how funny the LOA93 arbitration ruling is when it comes out too. I'll keep posting and you just go right ahead and keep on laughing. I might need to get one of those Judge Wake badge backers to show my support for the east pilots since we're so jovial and all.

Cheers!

 

[Phoenix]

When is USAPA's next public financial statement released? Is it yearly or quarterly?

At the very most it could show they squandered 11 Mil. No matter how you slice it they can't fail as bad as Poug and any significant changes they make require pilot ratification so they can't crawl out on limb nearly as far as the Preeminent Ripple.

 

[Phoenix]

I have not read the Change of control language. However, if AA merged with LCC, and was the surviving carrier, which as you point out is most likely, maintaining dual carrier status until there is a new contract would prevent your coc language from triggering. Or worse, the new union, the APA could give them relief from the contract while they throw us under the bus on seniority integration.

What makes you think change of control is coincident to change in the union contracts?

 

[Metroyet]

When is USAPA's next public financial statement released? Is it yearly or quarterly?

They plan on publishing all of their unedited financial information on June 39th.