US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Poug Darker]

My premise assumes the need for new hires. If the east starts retiring 350/ year, unless it shrinks, it will need replacement pilots. The east cannot hire off the street until all furloughs ( including West furloughs)are offerd recall and either accept or decline.

TA#9 had to do with furlough, not recall and/or hiring.

I agree 100% that before anyone is hired off the street all furloughs (east & west) must be offered recall.
However, those offered recall must be returned to their respective seniority list: east furlough to east ops, west furlough to west ops.
So, those 142 guys cannot be recalled to the east because they have no place on the east list.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

I agree 100% that before anyone is hired off the street all furloughs (east & west) must be offered recall.
However, those offered recall must be returned to their respective seniority list: east furlough to east ops, west furlough to west ops.
So, those 142 guys cannot be recalled to the east because they have no place on the east list.
Cheers.

Incorrect. Read the transition agreement section 6. It talks about placing east pilots on the west contract. the reverse applies.

Point of fact east furloughed pilots were flying for AWA. When we started furloughing they were allowed to return to the east.

A US Airways pilot who accepts a
position at America West:

Transition Agreement Language Protection Under AWA Contract 2004 Explanation of Transition Agreement Language
-8-
a) will be treated as junior to all pilots who
are on the America West seniority list on the
effective date of this Letter of Agreement, but
pilots on the US Airways seniority list
employed by America West under this
paragraph 6 will be ranked among themselves
in their order on the US Airways seniority
list;


This paragraph prevents America West from hiring new
pilots when US Airways pilots still remain on
furlough. In such instances, AAA pilots will fill
available AWA new hire vacancies as provided in the
following paragraphs.

 

[Pacemaker]

Why would the reverse apply....it doesn't specifically mention west going to east, only east going west. The east guys who went to the west and then returned east were already on the east seniority list.

My experience in the industry tells me that unless it's spelled out in block letters a foot high so plainly and explicitly that no lawyer in the world (or Gerry Glass) can possibly debunk it then it's not contractual and it won't happen.

 

[N905TW]

Why would the reverse apply....it doesn't specifically mention west going to east, only east going west.

Actually, the TA does mention the reverse:

"10. In the event of America West furloughs,
furlough references in this Letter of Agreement
will be modified to apply to both pilot groups.

This paragraph provides a reciprocal right for AWA
furloughees as was provided to AAA furloughees.

In other words, if AAA is hiring and AWA has pilots on
furlough, our furloughees would be entitled to those
new hire positions."

I do agree with you though about the wording.... ten people will read it and come up with ten different ideas of what it means and how it does or does not apply.....

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I see. I suppose that it logically follows from west thought, as previously posted that: "Insubordination will be an understatement." but should be both fully acceptable and enitrely expected by east captains that you're at philosophical odds with? Sounds like a great way to ensure a safe cockpit, a superb flow of open communications and truly excellent flight ops to me. Thanks, but I'll pass......Work out your personal issues somewhere other than the workplace, as any semblance of supposed professionals are required to do.

To quote an east poster- NPJB.

I think it's called living up to your agreements, something true professionals would do.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do agree with you though about the wording.... ten people will read it and come up with ten different ideas of what it means and how it does or does not apply.....

The difference (if it comes to a grievance) is that there is now past practice to rely on - the East furloughed pilots offered jobs on the West side before hiring off the street and then offered the opportunity to return to the East (replacing newly hired pilots) instead of being furloughed from the West.

Jim

 

[Pacemaker]

Thanks N905TW; didn't know the reverse was mentioned.

I'll agree if one side needs new hires while the other has folks on furlough, then they'll probably be offered the jobs.

What I don't see is west furloughees being recalled east ahead of east pilots still furloughed, regardless of Nic. seniority.

And I'm an AWA furloughed pilot saying this. Just being realistic.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What I don't see is west furloughees being recalled east ahead of east pilots still furloughed, regardless of Nic. seniority.

If you mean East pilots on the East list when the TA was signed, I agree. If you mean all pilots on the East list, including those hired after the merger, then it's untested waters. My personal opinion is that those hired after the merger should only be recalled after West furloughed pilots are either recalled to the West or offered jobs in the East, but it's only my opinion of what the TA says (despite my nephew being one of those post-merger East hires).

Jim

 

[Pacemaker]

Well let's hope somebody starts getting their jobs back 'cause right now the world is not a kind place for unemployed pilots!

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/SullySullenbe...tory?id=9997647


Sully Retires: No More Miracles on the Hudson
The US Airways Pilot is Retiring After 30 Years of Flying
By SCOTT MAYEROWITZ

March 3, 2010—

Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, the US Airways pilot who made an amazing emergency landing in the Hudson River last year is retiring.

After that flight -- dubbed "The Miracle on the Hudson" -- Sullenberger has become a celebrity, appearing on TV shows and writing a book, "Highest Duty: My Search for What Really Matters." He was reportedly paid $2.5 million to $3 million for the book.

After a few months off, Sullenberger returned to US Airways in a new role consulting on safety management for the airline and flying the occasional flight. In October, just before the release of his book, Sullenberger and First Officer Jeffrey Skiles, who was with him for the Hudson crash flight, took to the skies again together. The pair flew from Charlotte, N.C., to New York in the morning and then returned together in a trip called their "reunion flight."

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Passengers aboard those flights described the mood as "jubilant," with everybody clapping and screaming after Sullenberger welcomed them on board.

Sullenberger quickly became a poster child for the ideal pilot, somebody with years of experience and extensive safety training. He went to Congress to testify at a hearing about regional pilots and the amount of hours they have to work and number of years of experience they have.

When two Northwest Airlines pilots were out of contact with air traffic controllers for an unusually long amount of time, more than one person commented that it wouldn't have happened if Sully was at the helm.

Sully Retires from US Airways

Sullenberger has tried to balance that fine line between capitalizing on his celebrity and still playing the role of the humble hero. On a "People of the Year" TV special, he joked that his handling of the disabled jetliner brought him "rock star sex." And during his reunion flight, he told a throng of reporters gathers that the crash happened "at a time when people needed to know that good could still be done in the world."

Sullenberger, now 59, joined US Airways in 1980, when it was known as PSA Airlines.

US Airways announced today that Flight Attendant Doreen Welsh, who was also working on the Hudson crash flight, will also retire today. Welsh, 59, joined US Airways in 1970, when it was known as Allegheny Airlines. She has 39 years of experience with the airline. Both Sullenberger and Welsh are based out of US Airways' Charlotte hub, although Sullenberger lives in California.

"I am extremely proud of Captain Sullenberger and Doreen for their quick thinking and courageous actions on January 15, 2009," US Airways Chairman and CEO Doug Parker said in a statement. "They exemplify the professionalism and training US Airways' more than 10,000 pilots and flight attendants demonstrate thousands of times every day across our airline. We will miss them and thank them for all they have given to our customers during their years of service with our airline."

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures

 

[nycbusdriver]

Sully Retires: No More Miracles on the Hudson
The US Airways Pilot is Retiring After 30 Years of Flying
By SCOTT MAYEROWITZ

March 3, 2010—

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

Of course, being the gentleman that he is, I don't think he would ever say as much in public. But I do wonder.

And if my conjecture is true, I certainly don't blame him.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

Of course, being the gentleman that he is, I don't think he would ever say as much in public. But I do wonder.

And if my conjecture is true, I certainly don't blame him.

Sounds like you are projecting your beliefs on him.

 

[N924PS]

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

I don't think that is the case at all.

Sully had a cubicle in PHX but has rarely been there between personal appearances and other committments. His safety job was more ceremonial than anything else.

Flight 1549 was Sully's "Golden BB", and he no longer has to rely on USAirways for his future livelihood.

So long Captain Sullenberger, happy landings!

 

[EastUS]

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

Of course, being the gentleman that he is, I don't think he would ever say as much in public. But I do wonder.

And if my conjecture is true, I certainly don't blame him.

Interesting, in that the above's almost identical to my very first thoughts upon hearing of his retirement as well.......

 

[EastUS]

I think it's called living up to your agreements, something true professionals would do.

I see, otherwise; "Insubordination will be an understatement." ??? So...if you don't get what you want...what behavior will be expected from you? Let's kindly recall that we're speaking of fairly fast moving aircraft with a lot of people trusting their lives to those up front. I believe we've just covered the full extent of your knowledge about what any "true professionls would do" and in the process; you've additionally made a fairly respectable, first-look case for not mixing the two groups in cockpits.