US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

Flight 1549 was Sully's "Golden BB", and he no longer has to rely on USAirways for his future livelihood.

So long Captain Sullenberger, happy landings!

Ummm...Actually; "The Golden BB" is the one that shoots you down, not anything that makes one famous or well off.

Fully agreed with your last though = Good Luck and God's Blessings Sully!!

 

[Poug Darker]

If you mean East pilots on the East list when the TA was signed, I agree. If you mean all pilots on the East list, including those hired after the merger, then it's untested waters. My personal opinion is that those hired after the merger should only be recalled after West furloughed pilots are either recalled to the West or offered jobs in the East, but it's only my opinion of what the TA says (despite my nephew being one of those post-merger East hires).

Jim

So, if the east needs new hire pilots, then this provision kicks in, right? The east won't need new hires until all east furloughs are back...then if any west furloughs are still out, they'll be offered an east position prior to hiring off the street, at 'new hire' seniority on the east side.
Not a great deal, but its a job. BTW, TOS 190 F/O pay is $54.26 at 8 yr. level.
Cheers.

 

[cubfan]

Well let's hope somebody starts getting their jobs back 'cause right now the world is not a kind place for unemployed pilots!

Or unemployed period......... :down:

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

Of course, being the gentleman that he is, I don't think he would ever say as much in public. But I do wonder.

And if my conjecture is true, I certainly don't blame him.

Sully was assigned a cubicle just outside Bob Sk's door in the PHX training center - not in the Tempe Tombstone.

He never did come in and actually do the job for which he was given the title.

Gotta agree with you though - can't blame him one iota.

 

[nic4us]

So, if the east needs new hire pilots, then this provision kicks in, right? The east won't need new hires until all east furloughs are back...then if any west furloughs are still out, they'll be offered an east position prior to hiring off the street, at 'new hire' seniority on the east side.
Not a great deal, but its a job. BTW, TOS 190 F/O pay is $54.26 at 8 yr. level.
Cheers.

Not quite "new hire" seniority. The TA says "will be treated as junior to all pilots who are on the seniority list on the effective date of this letter". That would imply that they would be treated as senior to pilots who where not on the list ( i.e. 3rd listers).

Also, they retain and accrue their longivity for benefits, retain their AWA position, are not required to serve probation, but may be required to forgo recall to the West operation for 18 months.

BTW, the most senior West furlough ( furloughed 5-1-09)was hired in 2004, over a year before Colello's recall. The most senior furlough from 4-1-09 was hired 8-16-04, 9 months prior to the merger and about three years after his previous furlough from USAirways post 9-11, originally hired east 11-99 ( he is one of the Addington plaintiffs). The most junior who was on the list prior to the TA, Odell, was furloughed 10-1-2008 (and has 125 furloughs above him) although east furloughed pilots who took West recall and are by every measure junior to him, were allowed to move back east and keep a job.

So, if our scenario ever comes to pass, be certain their will be a grievence filed if the hypothetical West pilots are not place senior to those who were not on the list " on the effective date of this letter".

 

[cubfan]

Not quite "new hire" seniority. The TA says "will be treated as junior to all pilots who are on the seniority list on the effective date of this letter". That would imply that they would be treated as senior to pilots who where not on the list ( i.e. 3rd listers).

Also, they retain and accrue their longivity for benefits, retain their AWA position, are not required to serve probation, but may be required to forgo recall to the West operation for 18 months.

BTW, the most senior West furlough ( furloughed 5-1-09)was hired in 2004, over a year before Colello's recall. The most senior furlough from 4-1-09 was hired 8-16-04, 9 months prior to the merger and about three years after his previous furlough from USAirways post 9-11, originally hired east 11-99 ( he is one of the Addington plaintiffs). The most junior who was on the list prior to the TA, Odell, was furloughed 10-1-2008 (and has 125 furloughs above him) although east furloughed pilots who took West recall and are by every measure junior to him, were allowed to move back east and keep a job.

So, if our scenario ever comes to pass, be certain their will be a grievence filed if the hypothetical West pilots are not place senior to those who were not on the list " on the effective date of this letter".

true but hired 16yrs after Colello's 1988 doh. Colello's furlolugh lasted only 6 mo. He was in the first class at mainline flying the emb170.

 

[luvn737s]

According to this site USAirways never operated the EMB 170 on the mainline

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/US%20Airways.htm

 

[nic4us]

true but hired 16yrs after Colello's 1988 doh. Colello's furlolugh lasted only 6 mo. He was in the first class at mainline flying the emb170.

I mentioned Colello because we all know he was the most senior east furlough pre-merger, and compared that to the position of the most senior current West furlough. Was not trying to make a Nic comment, and in any event I do not know if the number is correct but I remember 440 being the number of east furloughs that accepted recall after the merger, who's names would be on the east list "on the effective date" of the TA. So, even the most senior West furlough would end up 440 below Colello on the east list, the question is would they end up above east post merger hires? and more to the original point I made, could they find hemselves flying with Captain Bradford?

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Just my conjecture, but I wonder if he got an inside peek at the head-shed and decided he never wished to be officially associated with the Tempe brain trust.

Of course, being the gentleman that he is, I don't think he would ever say as much in public. But I do wonder.

And if my conjecture is true, I certainly don't blame him.

You mean the Bular/Hogg show?? They are the providers of information to the 'Head Shed'.

 

[supercruiser]

"Appears" being the key word. Nothing on the bid announcement is cast in stone - it's the award that counts (and I can remember 2-3 times during my 16 years on the committee that even the published award had to be redone because of changes).



The number of positions don't change - normally. So why did they change this time? I mentioned some possible reasons but PI brat brings up an excellent potential reason that I didn't think of - the uncertainty about the actual number of furloughs. As he said, does it make sense that 43 blocks would require 58 reserves? If they weren't going to furlough it does because the E190 F/O position is the cheapest place to park the excess pilots, but with furloughs coming (unless that changes) the award removed the excess (not that 30 reserves isn't a lot of reserve coverage for 43 blocks).

Jim

I've been informed that Resource Planning purposely subtracted that number from the E190 Fo position, as that is the number of voluntary early retirements which were granted which are 28. Other than that reason, the bid is not tweaked among the various positions prior to the award. Sometimes the bid award does rarely get redone after it's published, but I can't remember an occasion becasue the actual bid was modifed after it came out.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Has the company said that instead of furloughs that there would be hiring due to the May bid? Open positions would suggest that.

Your explaination - that the number of early voluntary retirements in lieu of furlough - makes sense. As I said, the software doesn't take kindly to having more pilots participating in the bid than there are jobs so the bid announcement could have assumed no voluntary retirements and the award changed once that number was known. Like I said before, I'm just speculating on possible reasons why the number changed since I have no inside information on the real reason.

One thing is for sure - unless it's been retracted due to an error, the award is the official version. The announcement is the guideline version, so one can't say a difference between the number of jobs in a position on the announcement and on the award represents "open slots" available to recalled pilots. Only open positions on the award represent slots for recalled/new hire pilots.

I haven't looked to see if the junior active pilot on bid 10-3 is also the junior active pilot on bid 10-4. If so, that would mean no furloughs as a result of the May bid. If the junior pilot on the 10-3 bid is not on the 10-4 bid, it would mean furloughs barring unforeseen circumstances (like Sully's early retirement if that wasn't shown on the May bid).

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

I don't think that is the case at all.

Sully had a cubicle in PHX but has rarely been there between personal appearances and other committments. His safety job was more ceremonial than anything else.

Flight 1549 was Sully's "Golden BB", and he no longer has to rely on USAirways for his future livelihood.

So long Captain Sullenberger, happy landings!

You missed his entire statement. Read it again. He gets it , you don't. Good luck Sully. There was no golden BB. He is awesome.

 

[john john]

It seems odd that Sully would call it quits so soon after accepting a management job at the airline.

Could it be a deal with USAPA AFA on a early retirement package

 

[N924PS]

You missed his entire statement. Read it again. He gets it , you don't. Good luck Sully. There was no golden BB. He is awesome.

Be sure to kiss his ring the next time you see him. It's bigger than Cleary's!

 

[Pacemaker]

Seriously, why does the guy have to have some ulterior motive for retiring - he lives in the SFO area and probably has enough money to call it a career so why keep commuting to PHX or the east coast if you don't have to?