US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

YOU put the MEC......

Try again

Flip

Explain to me, in some/ANY reasonable detail, if at all possible, exactly how "YOU"/I had anything to do with even so much as who was on the MEC?

Why don't you "Try again"?

 

[EastUS]

If you didn't like your MEC or MC voice your concern or beyond that RECALL those that put these people in place (MEC and MC).

You must truly be joking, as that's otherwise either the most utterly naieve or simply and completely oblivious observation you've yet voiced. Is it at all even remotely possible that you're entirely unaware, or just slept through the time when alpa was denying the reasonable and demanded recall of the CLT bunch? The alpa response = "What recall?"..."We see nothing..We hear nothing...Just go away with your recall!!" Did you even notice the "little issue" when the PHL reps were replaced by alpa stooges that weren't even from this company? :blink: Seriously...are you honestly not aware of what was going on? PHL..hardly the "smallest" base in the system, had it's alpa people removed at a whim from Herndon, and instead of having any person(s) actually elected by any US pilots, replaced with "foreign" stooges of high-and-mighty alpa's choosing, while the justly attempted recall of the CLT bunch, (who alpa favored because they were easily bent to Herndon's will), was utterly ignored! Now...shall we once again visit your strange fantasy that all we ever had to do was voice our displeasure and recall?...as if that wasn't tried?

 

[boeingplt]

Can you redefine your statement? In that merger, there was no "east." It was north and south.

And I don't recall who was struck, but I do know that Sam Kagel was the arbitrator, went straight DOH with very small conditions and restrictions which had very short time limits.

Happy to redefine. I'm south originally/now east with a north heritage so bear with me. Heck, the way things are going I'll have the compass covered eventually.

The (North) MC struck Nic first in the PI/US merger rightfully so IMHO. Kirch was PI MC and advocated Ratio over DOH of course.

Math suggests, IMNSHO, that Bob would have been hard pressed to completely abandon his PI/US related prejudices, therefore rendering his judgement re Nic and subsequent resolve questionable

 

[cleardirect]

The pilot running for PHX domiclie rep recorded an offensive video describing USAPA. This video that is readily available on the internet, mirrors the attitude from the West side. This attitude has not made it easy for USAPA to function out West.

The originating group of pilots that formed USAPA, have shown courage and dedication that resulted in forming a union that represents all pilots of USAairways. Some west posters claim that it was just a way to get around the Nicolau decision, it was much more than that. Alpa turned their back on USAirways pilots for the last time. There is no joint operations until a collective bargaining agreement, the West fails to mention why this was part of the process. It was a fail safe back up that had an arbitration award gone awry in mind.

The "Goat Video".

Really.

How many other arbitrations have "gone awry"? There is not a fail safe in arbitrations. The fail safe is it is final and binding so you better make a reaonable offer to start.

So what is the fail safe if the company wins the snap back. What do they have to get out of an awry deal?

Justification is a strange thing. Some people can rationalize anything in their own mind.

 

[EastUS]

Justification is a strange thing. Some people can rationalize anything in their own mind.

Truer words were never spoken

 

[veritasaequitas]

Really.

How many other arbitrations have "gone awry"? There is not a fail safe in arbitrations. The fail safe is it is final and binding so you better make a reaonable offer to start.

So what is the fail safe if the company wins the snap back. What do they have to get out of an awry deal?

Justification is a strange thing. Some people can rationalize anything in their own mind.

1 Many. I did not say there is a fail safe in arbitration's, you love to put words in the mouth of others. Separate operations for USAairways until a pilot contract is voted on, has been fail safe thus far.

2 Refer to line 1

3 Refer to line 1

 

[veritasaequitas]

Really.

How many other arbitrations have "gone awry"? There is not a fail safe in arbitrations. The fail safe is it is final and binding so you better make a reaonable offer to start.

So what is the fail safe if the company wins the snap back. What do they have to get out of an awry deal?

Justification is a strange thing. Some people can rationalize anything in their own mind.

What is your opinion of the gentleman that is running for PHX rep?

 

[veritasaequitas]

Nothing is ever their fault in entitlementville.

Such arrogance from the east.

What part of "binding" don't they get?

You may not unerstand what pilots have to go through, this post of yours provides insight into your rational.

 

[Flippin43]

Effectively, you are cor4rect in what you say. Personally, I blame Kirch from the east MC for the entire fiasco. He was salivating at the thought that we could get Nicolau to be the arbitrator. What insanity. His nearsightedness at choosing Nicolau could only be surpassed by his arrogance through the entire process.

The day Nicolau was chosen, I told everyone who would listen that the outcome would mirror the Shuttle merger, as Nicolau was a one-trick pony. And sure enough, tired old George came through in spades.

With the Shuttle merger behind us (admittedly it worked out well for the USAir pilots,) the east MC should have struck Nicolau at the first opportunity. But, they had the "we know better" mentality. And here we are.

NYC,

I would like to compliment you for acknowledging that your own folks fingerprints are all over this. So many times we hear from the east that it was "Alpa's" fault etc. I would further agree with you that Arrogance and "we know better" is what got us here. If a different tack had been taken after Nicolau shot down DOH. He asked the east for different input to his decsion and none was offered. If something different was offered I think the results could have been different.

Problem is........with those now running usapa what is different? They are definately not suffering from a lack of Arrogance.


Please keep the compliment and agreement between us. It would wreck my rep and all.

Flip

 

[cleardirect]

1 Many. I did not say there is a fail safe in arbitration's, you love to put words in the mouth of others. Separate operations for USAairways until a pilot contract is voted on, has been fail safe thus far.

2 Refer to line 1

3 Refer to line 1

There is no joint operations until a collective bargaining agreement, the West fails to mention why this was part of the process. It was a fail safe back up that had an arbitration award gone awry in mind.

Do you not even know what you write or are you so pathological that you can not see the facts in front of your eyes? Those are your words.

How do you guys expect to hold a conversation when you will not or can not accept your own facts?

 

[veritasaequitas]

Do you not even know what you write or are you so pathological that you can not see the facts in front of your eyes? Those are your words.

How do you guys expect to hold a conversation when you will not or can not accept your own facts?

1 I do not recall those being my words. Words in others mouth by you again. My quote "There is no joint operations until a collective bargaining agreement, the West fails to mention why this was part of the process. It was a fail safe back up that had an arbitration award gone awry in mind."


2 What do you think about the America West pilot that produced the "Goat Video"? Second attempt at a conversation with you.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The pilot running for PHX domiclie rep recorded an offensive video describing USAPA.

USAPA violated its Duty to Fairly Represent the West from its inception. Hence, an offensive video was well-deserved.

This attitude has not made it easy for USAPA to function out West.

There's an easy way to improve the West's attitude.

Some west posters claim that it was just a way to get around the Nicolau decision, it was much more than that.

A certain letter shown in open court showed very well what the West already knew.

Alpa turned their back on USAirways pilots for the last time.

Scapegoating is alive and well. Airtran voted in ALPA last year. Do you pity them?

There is no joint operations until a collective bargaining agreement, the West fails to mention why this was part of the process. It was a fail safe back up that had an arbitration award gone awry in mind.

So lemme ask you this: ignoring for a moment the federal judge and jury does imposing your own seniority list that you feel is fair (but the other side doesn't) sound like a reasonable solution?

 

[veritasaequitas]

USAPA violated its Duty to Fairly Represent the West from its inception. Hence, an offensive video was well-deserved.
There's an easy way to improve the West's attitude.
A certain letter shown in open court showed very well what the West already knew.
Scapegoating is alive and well. Airtran voted in ALPA last year. Do you pity them?
So lemme ask you this: ignoring for a moment the federal judge and jury does imposing your own seniority list that you feel is fair (but the other side doesn't) sound like a reasonable solution?

1 You have said that the goat video is appropriate.

2 What certain letter are you referring to?

3 Airtran was Value Jet formally. They took over most of the flying that Midwest Airlines did, a former ALPA represented airline, that had its ALPA advised scope clause bulldozed by Republic Airlines.

4 Appeals court is not ignoring a federal judge, it is bringing it out in the open and is part of the legal process. I would love to ignore the jurys OJ verdict.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

Loved the anagram post, by far your best ever. Only problem, they are not true anagrams, as you are using letters more than once etc. But still enjoyed it.

I think if you check, each line is an anagram of the bolded line above it. Ie. some of them are anagramed twice.

Another one..
"Push A Vapid Clod"

 

[cleardirect]

1 I do not recall those being my words. Words in others mouth by you again. My quote "There is no joint operations until a collective bargaining agreement, the West fails to mention why this was part of the process. It was a fail safe back up that had an arbitration award gone awry in mind."


2 What do you think about the America West pilot that produced the "Goat Video"? Second attempt at a conversation with you.

I did not like the video. Do I think that he will win the election. NO! I would not vote for him for many reasons.