US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nycbusdriver]

Who put the MC in place? Did ALPA national appoint the MC members? Did ALPA national pick the arbitrator? Did ALPA national hire Katz as the merger lawyer?

Was it the east pilots that elected the LEC, that elected the MEC that appointed the MC? So in the end it was the east pilots that demanded the position of
DOH no one else to blame.

Effectively, you are cor4rect in what you say. Personally, I blame Kirch from the east MC for the entire fiasco. He was salivating at the thought that we could get Nicolau to be the arbitrator. What insanity. His nearsightedness at choosing Nicolau could only be surpassed by his arrogance through the entire process.

The day Nicolau was chosen, I told everyone who would listen that the outcome would mirror the Shuttle merger, as Nicolau was a one-trick pony. And sure enough, tired old George came through in spades.

With the Shuttle merger behind us (admittedly it worked out well for the USAir pilots,) the east MC should have struck Nicolau at the first opportunity. But, they had the "we know better" mentality. And here we are.

 

[EastUS]

Eastus-

Who held who hostage?? And please don't say ALPA. ALPA was nothing more than your own people representing you and knowingly manipulating east and west for their own gain.

"knowingly manipulating east and west for their own gain." I have no argument with. "their own gain" was always the standard MO for the majority of the alpa "lifers". Where our paths diverge here is in the notion that the MEC were "your own people". I never so much as once voted into office any of these people, nor those that "elected" them to the MEC/etc. To say that these were my "own people" and thusly, that I bear personal responsibility for their actions, is identical philosophy to asserting that although I voted against him, that I'm personally responsible for obama's hugs on sleazy, insane communist dictators and his cravenly bowing to saudi kings and japanese emperors....well maybe not identical, since I at least HAD a vote in that election.

Speakin of votes...just how many, if even so much as ONE did you west alpa folks put out for your line people to, in ANY way, determine the course that the west followed during all of this mess's inception?..I'm guessing it was "a number that's close to zero"??? Shall we revisit the "Who held who hostage?? " issue?

 

[EastUS]

Bottom line, if the 9th upholds Wake, usapa has exactly 2 options. Either, become legitimate and pay restitution, or go away.

Rather than pay the west so much as a single penny of "restitution"; I'd be quite fine with the "go away" option, so don't hold your breath out there for any dollars from the east pilots even if all events unfolded 100% in your favor...and "good luck" with everything going your way in the first place.

 

[EastUS]

That would be three East pilots, utilizing the services of the legal counsel picked by East pilots, to litigate on behalf of East pilots in the merger with America West.

It follows that we also have three west pilots to thank for all of this mess as well? So...a whopping total of six from the two groups made this mess and, by west logic, all of the thousands of line pilots are universally, personally responsible for each and every one of their actions? Hmmm...did any of your line pilots have any vote regrading their selection? Who actually voted your three into their postions?.

 

[EastUS]

We get it, we get it......................you think you are an innocent bystander and have done nothing wrong.

Your right, you did nothing when your representatives that YOU put in place

1) The "innocent bystander" is a postion often and loudly taken by the west = "We didn't do the arbitration, The Great and Powerfull OZ/Nic did!"/etc. What's your point?

2) In what way did I/"YOU put in place" any of those on the MEC? I voted against those on even the lowest rungs of alpa power..which was the only level I was ever allowed ANY vote on whatsover.

As it's so very fashionable out west to mindlessly assign universal responsibility for this sorry mess to each and every east line pilot...then guess what? = You all bear, as individuals, the same "guilt", even though you had no individual choice in the matter.

 

[Phoenix]

Who put the MC in place? ....

That's so yesterday and ignores the earthquake.

 

[Phoenix]

Nothing is EVER your fault is it? ...

You guys never saw a bobber and tackle you wouldn't swallow hook, line... Do you blame us for the USAPA constitution or not? Is your inability to cash your lottery ticket our fault or not?

 

[boeingplt]

Effectively, you are cor4rect in what you say. Personally, I blame Kirch from the east MC for the entire fiasco. He was salivating at the thought that we could get Nicolau to be the arbitrator. What insanity. His nearsightedness at choosing Nicolau could only be surpassed by his arrogance through the entire process.

The day Nicolau was chosen, I told everyone who would listen that the outcome would mirror the Shuttle merger, as Nicolau was a one-trick pony. And sure enough, tired old George came through in spades.

With the Shuttle merger behind us (admittedly it worked out well for the USAir pilots,) the east MC should have struck Nicolau at the first opportunity. But, they had the "we know better" mentality. And here we are.

Can you guess who the first Arbitrator the east MC struck during the Piedmont/US merger was?? I bet you can too.

 

[boeingplt]

Can you guess who the first Arbitrator the east MC struck during the Piedmont/US merger was?? I bet you can too.

Follow up question for you NYC, Do you know what role Kirch played in that drama? You do I'm sure and if you do then you don't exactly need a Chinese calculator to do the math.

 

[cleardirect]

That's so yesterday and ignores the earthquake.

Then I guess you can stop bringing it up from now on. That was in response to your quip.

Would that be an ALPA MC? No.. you don't say! laugh.gif

Ready to move on or still want it both ways?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Can you guess who the first Arbitrator the east MC struck during the Piedmont/US merger was?? I bet you can too.

Can you redefine your statement? In that merger, there was no "east." It was north and south.

And I don't recall who was struck, but I do know that Sam Kagel was the arbitrator, went straight DOH with very small conditions and restrictions which had very short time limits.

 

[BoeingBoy]

DOH with very small conditions and restrictions which had very short time limits.

That's what I love about some of these claims....I guess "the remainder of their career" is very short for some...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Then I guess you can stop bringing it up from now on. That was in response to your quip.



Ready to move on or still want it both ways?

You brought it up first.. and second.. They are gone already.

 

[nic4us]

You guys never saw a bobber and tackle you wouldn't swallow hook, line... Do you blame us for the USAPA constitution or not? Is your inability to cash your lottery ticket our fault or not?

Phoenix,

Loved the anagram post, by far your best ever. Only problem, they are not true anagrams, as you are using letters more than once etc. But still enjoyed it.

 

[Flippin43]

1) The "innocent bystander" is a postion often and loudly taken by the west = "We didn't do the arbitration, The Great and Powerfull OZ/Nic did!"/etc. What's your point?

00The difference is that Nicolau was not our elected Representative. YOU put the MEC and MC involved in the process and are responsible for its result by voting in the Representative that you had at the time. You are insulting everyone on here including your fellow east pilots if you claim you were all powerless.

2) In what way did I/"YOU put in place" any of those on the MEC? I voted against those on even the lowest rungs of alpa power..which was the only level I was ever allowed ANY vote on whatsover.

Very simple. If you were a dues paying member in good standing you had the right to vote for a Representative (more likely you didn't vote at all) If you didn't like your MEC or MC voice your concern or beyond that RECALL those that put these people in place (MEC and MC). This was always an option and I hear it rarely happened over there but that doesn't stop the complaining now does it. You always had this option, You always had input!!! To now say otherwise it beyond absurd.[/color][/color]
As it's so very fashionable out west to mindlessly assign universal responsibility for this sorry mess to each and every east line pilot...then guess what? = You all bear, as individuals, the same "guilt", even though you had no individual choice in the matter.

Try again

Flip