US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

This is also your management team and will be for a long time to come ....

I think not. Personally?..I don't give this place 3 more years if the current crop of mostly complete fools/jokes are left in charge. For the sake of all concerned; I certainly hope I'm entirely wrong in that estimation...

 

[EastUS]

One could perhaps also make a case that the east Blitzkrieg has run out of steam...

Perhaps not the most favorable analogy for the west's use even under the best possible conditions,. While it's ridiculous to employ references to actual war whenever dealing with merely a labor group dispute, which is hardly anything serious by comparison; The Red Army had an almost limitless supply of people and equipment from various suppliers. They "had the numbers".....You don't.

 

[EastUS]

I wouldn’t be able to put a cost to east pilots on their cause celeb of delaying the NIC, but it seems safe to say that it must be in the tens of thousands of dollars in lost pay over the past three years ....

On a personal level; I couldn't care less what it costs to do what I firmly believe is the right thing, but anyway; how much do you think it would cost the folks I fly with for them to NEVER see their left seats again? How much should they be compensated for having the inestimable joy and privelege of pulling gear for some "kid" that was barely even born when many of them started flying?

Come up with some figures you feel appropriate for those damages........

 

[EastUS]

You got me there. I can’t think of anything ALPA was good for.....

Resolving the NIC means the bulk of the strife between the two pilot groups is in the past .....

1) I can certainly agree with the first.

2) I must assume that you offer that in only the fullest jest?

 

[Metroyet]

I think not. Personally?..I don't give this place 3 more years if the current crop of mostly complete fools/jokes are left in charge. For the sake of all concerned; I certainly hope I'm entirely wrong in that estimation...

You've received a paycheck continuously for the last two decades. Therefore, I'd say you have quite the record of being "entirely wrong in that estimation". This notion that "the end is near" has been regurgitated year, after year, after year, after year. US Air has become synonymous with unfettered failure and yet, like a welcoming case of simplex, is highly contagious, incurable and simply won't go away.

Whatever causes the final demise of AAA, Doug Parker had nothing to do with it. This bloated rotten corpse of a business sank to the bottom of the Ganges a long LONG time ago. Meanwhile, you're all oblivious to the fact the the world has left you in the dust and the realization that the glory days of 1983 will NEVER return hasn't even begun to sink in yet.

Something is in the Water back East.

 

[EastUS]

You've received a paycheck continuously for the last two decades. Therefore, I'd say you have quite the record of being "entirely wrong in that estimation". This notion that "the end is near" has been regurgitated year, after year, after year, after year. US Air has become synonymous with unfettered failure and yet, like a welcoming case of simplex, is highly contagious, incurable and simply won't go away.

Whatever causes the final demise of AAA, Doug Parker had nothing to do with it. This bloated rotten corpse of a business sank to the bottom of the Ganges a long LONG time ago. Meanwhile, you're all oblivious to the fact the the world has left you in the dust and the realization that the glory days of 1983 will NEVER return hasn't even begun to sink in yet.

Something is in the Water back East.

It's actually been almost four decades of receiving a paycheck continuosly from various "employers", but not through US until the "merger-mania" started up. I've never before been one much predisposed to espousing that "the end is near" so I've no idea what justification you have for that....no matter.

Ummm..is it even at all possible that you find no inconsistencies with your presumed optimism for long-term survival whilst simultaneously blasting forth: "Whatever causes the final demise of AAA,"...coupled with the spritually cleansing benefits of bathing in the Ganges...as "This bloated rotten corpse" ?

"and the realization that the glory days of 1983 will NEVER return.." Even 1983, while a truly wonderful year to be alive, had it's downsides. In fact; I believe AWA was started up back then? :blink:

"Whatever causes the final demise of AAA, Doug Parker had nothing to do with it." Hmmm...So....who IS in charge then? :blink:

Btw: You did notice that I said I hope to be entirely wrong in the sad estimation that this company's unlikely to survive long under it's present management?

 

[luvn737s]

Come up with some figures you feel appropriate for those damages........

That is irrelevant, as the west pilots are under no obligation to make whole (via eviscerating their careers) those pilots who unfortunately accepted employment with the airline formerly known as USAirways.

While you are certainly entitled to your "NO" vote, you are not entitled to tie up the process that leads to the opportunity to cast such a vote. While you might love to shift the blame to the company for delaying the negotiations, it is in fact USAPA's M.O. of raising unrealistically high expectations that forces the company to not waste it's time playing such a game.

There will be a T/A to vote on. It will be a slightly modified Kirby. It will likely fail, but the results will dictate the amount of sweetening required to pass, and after an iteration or two, it will indeed pass. That's reality.

 

[EastUS]

While you are certainly entitled to your "NO" vote,...

Very gracious of you, although I've little doubt you would wish it otherwise and take it away if at all possible.

It is the rest of your posted notions/hopes/wish-list/etc that are truly irrelevant.

 

[Crzipilot]

On a personal level; I couldn't care less what it costs to do what I firmly believe is the right thing, but anyway; how much do you think it would cost the folks I fly with for them to NEVER see their left seats again? How much should they be compensated for having the inestimable joy and privelege of pulling gear for some "kid" that was barely even born when many of them started flying?

Come up with some figures you feel appropriate for those damages........

Interesting, as awhile back had a west jumpseater, and we had a very cordial conversation from the west coast back to his home on the east coast. That was his first question, what was it going to cost for me to accept the nic. He was kinda surprised when I said it starts at a minimum, of 40k/year..........that might get me thinking about it. He went on to explain that he chose his airline based on the rapid movement AWest was having at the time '97-99 time frame, and that he really didn't want to sit around for 10 long years waiting for the left seat, so he made the best decision back in that time area to go with the best airline to get that left seat the fastest.

So now people are going to tell me, west won't go east for the left seat, meanwhile, in the hiring boom of the '90's this guy chose the airline by which had the highest turnover so he could get the left seat the quickest. (not looking into why they had the highest turnover)

Now remember who and what was hiring in 95-2000, and the comparison of contracts and work rules at that time....... Makes ya go Hmmmm...

Oh, and the statement, that many west guys won't commute east. Please, I see and have known pilots that commute from the west coast for an RJ job paying 20k a year. I've seen guys to international commutes for a non-sked freight job. Pilots will chase the money every time.....period.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Oh, and the statement, that many west guys won't commute east.

Of course some will. But for your scare-tactic to work it would have to be a heck of lot more than the East pilots who will commute west. No evidence of that.

Of course, given the behavior of the Easties there's now a cadre of Westies who would bid East just for spite. Can't blame them but that's not how I roll.

 

[Crzipilot]

Boy that's rich. " Because we feel you haven't been nice, " I'm going to subject myself to a 5 hour commute both ways, just to prove a point..

Uhmmm...ya.....ok.......it isn't for the money or the left seat...Ok...gotcha...

 

[cleardirect]

Interesting, as awhile back had a west jumpseater, and we had a very cordial conversation from the west coast back to his home on the east coast. That was his first question, what was it going to cost for me to accept the nic. He was kinda surprised when I said it starts at a minimum, of 40k/year..........that might get me thinking about it. He went on to explain that he chose his airline based on the rapid movement AWest was having at the time '97-99 time frame, and that he really didn't want to sit around for 10 long years waiting for the left seat, so he made the best decision back in that time area to go with the best airline to get that left seat the fastest.

So now people are going to tell me, west won't go east for the left seat, meanwhile, in the hiring boom of the '90's this guy chose the airline by which had the highest turnover so he could get the left seat the quickest. (not looking into why they had the highest turnover)

Now remember who and what was hiring in 95-2000, and the comparison of contracts and work rules at that time....... Makes ya go Hmmmm...

Oh, and the statement, that many west guys won't commute east. Please, I see and have known pilots that commute from the west coast for an RJ job paying 20k a year. I've seen guys to international commutes for a non-sked freight job. Pilots will chase the money every time.....period.

It was not "turnover" that created the movement, it was expansion. You know the opposite of what the east has been doing fore the last 20 years. AWA was ADDING airplanes and routes until we were forced to be associated with the Titanic of airlines.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now remember who and what was hiring in 95-2000, and the comparison of contracts and work rules at that time....... Makes ya go Hmmmm...

Yes, pretty much everybody but US does make ya go Hmmmmm doesn't it.....

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

On a personal level; I couldn't care less what it costs to do what I firmly believe is the right thing, but anyway; how much do you think it would cost the folks I fly with for them to NEVER see their left seats again? How much should they be compensated for having the inestimable joy and privelege of pulling gear for some "kid" that was barely even born when many of them started flying?

Come up with some figures you feel appropriate for those damages........

So we have returned to this old rumor. I have asked and no one has answered.

How many east pilots “will never see the left seat�
How many east pilots would never have seen the left seat without the merger?
What is the marginal change from DOH to Nicolau.
How many west pilots would never see the left seat under DOH?
Do you know the ratio that the east/west F/O’ were slotted by Nicolau?

Did you know the average age of the east and west pilots?

Please point to the pilot that will never upgrade but will be pulling gear for someone who was “barely born yet“. Where on the list does this happen what age was he when he was “barely born“?

How about some facts instead of emotion?

Wild rhetoric only proves that you have no facts just emotion. Standing on “principle†because you “believe†that you are right even though you are wrong on your facts is simple crazy. You can keep voting no until you retire or die but at least know what you are voting against. There are people in the world that “know they are right†then step on a bus and blow up innocent people. The rest of the world has a different opinion of them.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Perhaps not the most favorable analogy for the west's use even under the best possible conditions,. While it's ridiculous to employ references to actual war whenever dealing with merely a labor group dispute, which is hardly anything serious by comparison; The Red Army had an almost limitless supply of people and equipment from various suppliers. They "had the numbers".....You don't.

You've got the numbers and still haven't been able to steamroll us, and make no mistake, that is what your side attempted to do. Perhaps my analogy has its flaws, but your attempted steam roll has run into serious problems, even with the numbers.

All your numbers allowed you was to start the attempted steamroll.