US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

What utter bilge.

East entered into a binding agreement and are too cowardly.....

It may seem a small point...but...I've had it with the "cowardly" BS. "Nyaah, Nyaah's" on an internet site do not "heros" make. There's no shortage of east folks who have put their lives on the line for the USA and YOU in combat theater ops. What have you ever experienced or risked to assign to yourself the ability to judge ANYONE as "cowardly"?...Perhaps the horrid possibility of suffering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?

No semblance of any actual man affords others insults that he's not willing to back up in some suitable fashion. In your case?...I'd have to imagine that "back up" to be a typing derby...at best.

"What utter bilge" is right.......

No matter I suppose, as one must always "consider the source"...Sigh. Feel free to return to the insipid one-liners. 🙄

 

[EastUS]

What has the east offered to the west besides DOH and you'll inherit the airline someday?

You gambled and lost.

1) That's entirely "unfair" and/or "unreasonable" or at all untrue = "you'll inherit the airline"...ummm...how? Patience is a Virtue. What truly makes any out west so "special" that you're "entitled" to entirely, and with complete contempt, dismiss the years worked by other people within your same class and craft?..and do so solely for reasons of personal, selfish gain?

2) "You gambled and lost" = The entire west positon in a nutshell. Naturally; none could ever imagine any finer way by which to properly determine "seniority" :blink: The rest ("integrity"/etc) is all purely horse-hockey you feed yourselves to "justify" it.

 

[luvthe9]

By our measure, America West is worst overall http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html And it continues to spread it's pestilence to us now.

 

[EastUS]

I'm guessing you want the west to roll over to your age and experience??

Don't be ridiculous! Why should "anyone" ever respect or value any such trival things? 🙄

 

[N924PS]

By our measure, America West is worst overall http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html And it continues to spread it's pestilence to us now.

And your beloved USAir/USAirways has been the darling of the industry for how many years now?

The pestilence has always been East of the Mississppi and North of the Mason-Dixon line.

 

[veritasaequitas]

And what does the west have to offer? (hint we are all one big happy family...at your doing) Exactly what are you wanting the west to give on?? I'm guessing you want the west to roll over to your age and experience??

As for the company, The Kirby was at least a starting point. What has usapa offered but to open every section of the contract. My guess is we are at a less than zero point now.

Please tell me how our esteemed professional negotiator has performed so far, money well spent?

The east has all the cards now, lead on or is that just to difficult?

I appreciate and respect, the contribution of the sound, reasoned and well thought out debate that you have provided to this forum this evening.

 

[flyinawa]

By our measure, America West is worst overall http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html And it continues to spread it's pestilence to us now.

Wow. You had to go back to 2001 to dig up that article. It's safe to say a few of these went around with the USAir name attached to them in the last 10 years as well.

 

[veritasaequitas]

And your beloved USAir/USAirways has been the darling of the industry for how many years now?

The pestilence has always been East of the Mississppi and North of the Mason-Dixon line.

Sir,

Would you like to divulge how you ended up on the USAirways list of pilots. I think it would be very helpful to the followers of this forum, when they are trying to digest the wisdom in your posts.

 

[CallawayGolf]

By our measure, America West is worst overall http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html And it continues to spread it's pestilence to us now.

It was those performance failures, in part, that got Doug the job as CEO. Jeffrey McClelland became the EVP/COO and really turned HP's performance stats around. He also helped in the first year of the merger to get the combined airline near the top of the DOT metrics. The loss of his leadership was one the main reasons why 2007 was such a terrible operating year (until Robert Isom came on board).

This is not intended to be a flame, but the numbers clearly show that PHL was the worst performing hub in all performance metrics until Robert put Suzanne Boda in as the SVP over east ops. PHL still has its challenges but it has made significant improvements since 2008.

At any rate the days of America Worst are behind us as the management that caused those failures have been replaced by leaders who have the commitment and experience to operate a competitive airline.

 

[Metroyet]

USAPA took over shortly after this video by the former ALPA MEC chairman for USAirways pilots. The former union of the USAirways pilots was voted out, because the line pilots felt that the ALPA firewall was not effective enough any more due to union politics.


Straight Talk: Jack Stephan on Fixing the Nic

Seriously, you shouldn't have anything against Jack Stephan. I was sitting in the Court room when he *attempted* to convince the jury that his actual understanding of the ALPA merger policy was that it was only applicable to the 3 members of the respective merger committees...not the pilot groups as a whole.

In other words, under oath, Jack Stephan claimed that it was his understanding that the seniority integration decision delivered by Nic. wouldn't be applicable to the individual pilot groups, but rather, the integration, (again) derived from binding arbitration, would only potentially shuffle 6 pilots on the seniority list....That's what he claimed was his understanding of ALPA merger policy.

UNDER OATH

Funny because this video seems to imply that he understood that the implications of the nic. award reached vastly farther than he swore to under oath. There's a word for that...I think it starts with a "p". The activation of the CIRP team after the Nic was published would also tend to discredit Jack Stephans testimony as to what exactly the nic. award meant. It's really hard to imagine that a grown man, with decades of service in ALPA, misunderstood the rules so badly.

It's impossible to imagine in fact.

But yet there he was on the stand, making an absolute fool out of himself on your behalf...and you have the stones to now disparage this martyr?

BTW, the Jury didn't seem to believe him either. Guilty in 90 minutes would kind of indicate the level of confidence they put in your MEC Chairman.

 

[EastUS]

Seriously, you shouldn't have anything against Jack Stephan.

It's really hard to imagine that a grown man, with decades of service in ALPA, misunderstood the rules so badly.

Placing the above together lends interesting coloration...wouldn't you say? :blink: The last line is clearly indicative of observation based on very little experience with the glory that is/WAS alpa. Firstly; one would have to assume that alpa had "rules"..as opposed to just self-serving "policies" and "guidelines"

 

[Flippin43]

Was there any compromise offered from the America West pilots, since the day of the arbitration award?

AWA pilots or any OAL pilots don't seem to have a problem with the award. Every one but the east pilots saw how close they were to liquidation and can see how much better they are with the merger and the NIC than without the merger (liquidation).

So I believe it is the east that would need to start suggesting alternatives. DOH doesn't qualify as one.

 

[cleardirect]

Was there any compromise offered from the America West pilots, since the day of the arbitration award?

The west does not have to comprimise the arbitration is done.

What has the east offered? It is the east that wants a compromise what are you willing to give?

The answer all this time has been NOTHING. You just want us to hand you something just like during the arbitration. Not going to happen.

 

[cleardirect]

I've never seen anyone post here that is it USAPA's intention to never get a contract. What you are reading is that it is the east pilots' collective intention to never get a contract if it includes the Nicolau shame.



Do you see the difference? Official position of USAPA is quite in line with Wake's ruling. Position of the rank-and-file on the east side? Different situation.



Two years from now another DFR? Good luck with that if the NMB is still mediating. But go right ahead....roll out another $2 million for your attorneys. It's always a good show for us on the east.

But wait. How many times has it been said that it is the line pilots that direct the BPR, the BPR directs the national officers but it is the line pilot that is in charge?

So all of your misdirection now is contrary to other statements. So what is it? Do the line pilots control the direction and therefore demand a delay and violation of the injunction. Or does the union leadership control the direction and the line pilots are just fooling themselves into thinking that they really have any control?

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I appreciate and respect, the contribution of the sound, reasoned and well thought out debate that you have provided to this forum this evening.

Avoid the question Sir, the typical response.

Again, please tell me what the west has to give on? Your age and experience??? The job I brought to trade for your furlough??

I'm just using the AFOC logic, I want what I want and I want it now. It doesn't matter what legal agreements bind me.

East legal Team