US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[End of USAPA]

I think it fair to now assume that west posters have no aversion to responding to direct inquiry, so here's my question of the day for you. It's a very simple one and can be answered within whatever temporal restraints you see fit:

Given your stated beliefs; precisely or even approximately when can we all expect to see the first system bid based on the nic?

Thats a good question! The answer now is it will take a long way to go to get us to that point. There is no way we can go anywhere as long as the lottery ticket is there.

 

[EastUS]

"Given your stated beliefs; precisely or even approximately when can we all expect to see the first system bid based on the nic?"

Answer: When we have a contract to vote on. The contract will pass and you can have the system bid. Simple.


If it dosent pass, then we will truly see how much resolve the East has. Usapa is afraid at this time to put out a contract for a vote, because it will show how much support they DONT have.

In other words; even assuming that the west knows the mindset of the east far better than do the east people themselves; You still have no idea whatsoever as to when? :blink: Was it really that tough a question?

 

[EastUS]

I repeat it because you can't understand it.

In your heart, you know I am right.

Do I have this "logic" correct? "you can't understand it", but running concurrently; "you know I am right"?

You've previously posted to an east person that the issue dujour was "Over your head". I now ask you to most kindly cease the merry one-liners and, without the slightest mercy for we obviously intellectually impaired, expand and expound in perhaps more majestic prose. Hold nothing back!..because frankly...well the gutteral snippetts are leaving at least a few of us confused as to whether or not there's any coherent thought process behind them.....

 

[Freebird]

Thats a good question! The answer now is it will take a long way to go to get us to that point. There is no way we can go anywhere as long as the lottery ticket is there.

You helped choose the arbitrator that decided our seniority. Your group agreed ALL of those furloughed would be junior to any active pilot. In fact, you help write the T/A. How much clearer does it need to be for you?

Put out a contract to vote on, and it WILL pass. You have a vote. The only advantage you have is numbers, lets see if your numbers work for or against you.

 

[EastUS]

Put out a contract to vote on, and it WILL pass.

Interesting, especially when flavored by your "If it dosent pass" from just the immediately preceeding page.

I've but two questions:

1) Is it really your honest estimation that repeating something and just amping up the vehemence level makes said something any more or less true?

2) What gruesome video game did you extract that fiercesome avatar from?

 

[Black Swan]

So we are back to the JS issue. I have not heard of anyone being denied or dening a JS in a very long time. Perhaps it is just you. Maybe it is your attitude when you approach the captain.

Nicolau had nothing to do with bestowing integrity. It has to do with how you react after things do not go your way. Did you observe the reaction when we lost the Suzie arbitration? Not name calling, no crying just acceptance.

Let us see who has integrity when the ninth rules.

Clear- Regarding the "Suzie" arb. would you please give it the proper nomenclature for starters for archival reference. Next, you have to give us the contractual violation section by section. I am not trying to give you a hard time. You are citing a contractual violation that your Grievance people took to arbitration after the proper lower level hearings. What section of the contract did it violate? I would be very interested to see if you actually had a valid grievance, or was this a kind of protest thing you flew up the pole in protest with no backing.So if you are telling me you lost something you actually had no valid case for in the first place, and accepted it without crying, I am going to tell you I went to traffic court after being clocked doing 105 in a school zone, and accepted it without crying. Guess why I accepted it? I had nothing to stand on.

 

[Black Swan]

You helped choose the arbitrator that decided our seniority. Your group agreed ALL of those furloughed would be junior to any active pilot. In fact, you help write the T/A. How much clearer does it need to be for you?

Put out a contract to vote on, and it WILL pass. You have a vote. The only advantage you have is numbers, lets see if your numbers work for or against you.

Stop right there Freebird. Red light. OUR FORMER ALPA MEC CHOSE KIRCH. I told you why nobody wanted this guy. Archive back. He lost every merger he got his hands on. He picked Nic. after we protested every inch of the way. Our MEC was on their own. Kirch blew the Shuttle deal. Nic was the wrong guy. Kirch picked him. We all went nuts when we saw Nic.'s past. This is our history before you went into the ring with us, so this was OUR team before the arguments even began, and we were POWERLESS under the old ALPA structure to kill the deal. This is one more reason we took out ALPA. It was the quickest way to take out ALL the MEC who sold us out for years. This, was the final straw after we got MEC chair after chair who were not up to any task. The first MEC chair we ever got to vote for was CLEARY, and I am telling you I voted for him.

 

[Black Swan]

Perhaps Bradford, Cleary and the ardent supporters of USAPA could take a long, hard introspective look at Tiger Wood’s statement and be moved to make the same. Imagine the unity that could come if the simply said:


Calloway. You have got to be kidding me. This guy was seriously out of his mind for poontang. How the )*&(*(* do you even begin to bring the combination of serious cash flow on this level with a bunch of east and west pilots sucked into a bunged up merger run by a company like this? God help all of us sucked into this vortex.


















Well done Tiger. Stephen, Mike are you up to the task? Do you have the moral foundation to admit you need to do some serious work on your character and integrity?

 

[Black Swan]

Perhaps Bradford, Cleary and the ardent supporters of USAPA could take a long, hard introspective look at Tiger Wood’s statement and be moved to make the same. Imagine the unity that could come if the simply said:


Well done Tiger? Calloway, you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! This was written by a bunch of his followers worried about the gravy train being cut off! Perp walk- Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, Bill Clinton, Haggert, Eliot Spitzer, Gov. Sanford,Doug Parker, next up Tiger Woods ! Fall In!


















Well done Tiger. Stephen, Mike are you up to the task? Do you have the moral foundation to admit you need to do some serious work on your character and integrity?

 

[Black Swan]

When did this happen? Two years ago? Everyone understands the bad blood that is on your property. He said, she said, they did it first, no they did it first. That is basically what I expected to hear out of my children 15 years ago when they were 10. If USAPA has leaders that want to be leaders, then they need to understand their responsibilities. They need to chuck aside their silly human pride and move ahead with unifying this pilot group. They should dump this lawsuit like last week. This is just a festering sore on your union and yet your union leaders refuse to lance it. Don't ask for settlement, drop it today.

I don't care if everything you allege is 100% true. It is just a bunch of baloney. During the NW-DL merger, the NW MEC dropped back into the "seniority is war" mode. They put out a bunch of false allegations against the Delta MEC, allegations that were proven false by their own testimony in the arbitration hearings. What did the DL MEC do. Nothing. They just sat there and took it because that was the fastest way to put the two groups together when the seniority list was done. Our MEC Chairman was personally attacked over and over and never said one word back.

I can't believe that any union member anywhere would look at this stinker of a lawsuit and the fact that it has gone on for almost two years as anything other than a travesty. The goal of your union is to unify the pilot group and work for the entire union. It is not to participate in some East-West war of attrition. Utter insanity, and there is not one word you can say that would justify this type of divisive action by your leaders. Cleary and the BPR should be ashamed they have not gotten rid of this.

Oscar, are you OK with them blocking the safety hotline?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Oscar, are you OK with them blocking the safety hotline?

Once again, if you read the complaint, not one single defendant was accused of that. Not one. Oh well, at least you didn't fool the judge. When he dismissed it with predjudice, he made reference to that, saying that usapa only offered a vague reference to 'co-conspirators.'

It certainly is odd none of those mythical 'co-conspirators' had names.

 

[Black Swan]

When did this happen? Two years ago? Everyone understands the bad blood that is on your property. He said, she said, they did it first, no they did it first. That is basically what I expected to hear out of my children 15 years ago when they were 10. If USAPA has leaders that want to be leaders, then they need to understand their responsibilities. They need to chuck aside their silly human pride and move ahead with unifying this pilot group. They should dump this lawsuit like last week. This is just a festering sore on your union and yet your union leaders refuse to lance it. Don't ask for settlement, drop it today.

I don't care if everything you allege is 100% true. It is just a bunch of baloney. During the NW-DL merger, the NW MEC dropped back into the "seniority is war" mode. They put out a bunch of false allegations against the Delta MEC, allegations that were proven false by their own testimony in the arbitration hearings. What did the DL MEC do. Nothing. They just sat there and took it because that was the fastest way to put the two groups together when the seniority list was done. Our MEC Chairman was personally attacked over and over and never said one word back.

I can't believe that any union member anywhere would look at this stinker of a lawsuit and the fact that it has gone on for almost two years as anything other than a travesty. The goal of your union is to unify the pilot group and work for the entire union. It is not to participate in some East-West war of attrition. Utter insanity, and there is not one word you can say that would justify this type of divisive action by your leaders. Cleary and the BPR should be ashamed they have not gotten rid of this.

Hey Oscar, the west chose to split this group with the pay and now it has come home to roost. You have NO clue as to the undercurrents here. We got these guys a DC Plan and profit sharing at the beginning. They chose to do nothing but laugh at our pay division. Now you focus on some lawsuit that really will never mean much, we all know it, in the end. Meanwhile- you have lost complete focus on the pay issue because you choose to vent on some minor issue. How about the fact the west has divided this group so seriously that things like this are brought totally out of context? You don't get it because you don't take the time to really dig into the bottom line, and foremost, YOU CANT HANDLE WE DUMPED YOUR VAULTED ALPA!

 

[Barrister]

Ummm.... "Well done Tiger"???? Ummm again...Do I actually have this right? According to you; Mr. Woods nowadays has suddenly/magically/instantly developed a "moral foundation"? :blink: Man...it must be really easy and an immediate process to obtain such then??? Waitta' minute!...AH!...NOW I finally understand the west's so easilly obtaining instant "Integrity" via some arbitrator's whim. Thanks for the inadvertant explanation of the thought processes involved.

Enough with the Tiger analogies. Notice he was contrite but did not say: "To back up my mea culpa I'm giving back the billion, the 130 ft Feadship, the Gulfstream etc....

AND WE AIN'T GIVING UP THE HARD EARNED YEARS HERE EITHER!!!

VNIMN
NPJB

 

[Black Swan]

Once again, if you read the complaint, not one single defendant was accused of that. Not one. Oh well, at least you didn't fool the judge. When he dismissed it with predjudice, he made reference to that, saying that usapa only offered a vague reference to 'co-conspirators.'

It certainly is odd none of those mythical 'co-conspirators' had names.

lynrdskynrd- lets' say the 9th tanks Addington. Do you appeal, or do you drop it?

 

[Black Swan]

Answer: When we have a contract to vote on. The contract will pass and you can have the system bid. Simple.


If it dosent pass, then we will truly see how much resolve the East has. Usapa is afraid at this time to put out a contract for a vote, because it will show how much support they DONT have.

Freebird, don't kid yourself. This company is never going to give us a decent offer. They are loving the way things are with this group.