US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nycbusdriver]

NYCBusdriver,

You're catching on. Just like when you entered Binding Arbitration, you allowed the Arbitrator the authority to settle this dispute. Good Point !!!

Repeat...AAA MEC Gave Nicolau permission to Arbitrate a seniority list under BINDING ARBITRATION. Its over.

Kind of like: "Till death do us part"? That makes divorce lawyers obsolete then. Oh, wait. There still is divorce allowed. Sometimes even contested.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I agree. Had the defendants stopped the high school pranks when asked nicely (several times,) there would have been no Cactus 18. But NOOOOOOO! "We're going to show those east pilots they can't have a union we don't like, so let's just ignore the official requests to cease and desist, then see how they like that! What are they going to do? Take us to court?"

Yep. And USAPA is going to do what it does best - pay high-priced law firms so they can show just how big they will lose in as many courts as they can.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Integrity comes from living up to your promise of binding arbitration. You can't just pick and chose what you like and don't like after signing on for binding arbitration. Denying jumpseats is bad, I am against it, but denying the entire company of getting this merger done is reprehensible.

Will somebody PLEASE hit that Victrola again.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Kind of like: "Till death do us part"? That makes divorce lawyers obsolete then. Oh, wait. There still is divorce allowed. Sometimes even contested.

Unless a couple elects to enter into a covenant marriage (AZ has such a provision) which makes divorce a much more difficult matter. Couples who simply apply for a marriage license can revoke that license with relative ease (sad to say). But those enter into a covenant with each other have much bigger legal challenges ahead of them if one of them decides to split.

Binding arbitration is much more equivalent to a covenant marriage than it is to a marriage license. Yours is a pretty bad analogy really.

 

[Freebird]

Kind of like: "Till death do us part"? That makes divorce lawyers obsolete then. Oh, wait. There still is divorce allowed. Sometimes even contested.

We dont make decisions on whether the airline splits. The decision we are talking about here, is the Nic award. The Final and Binding award that YOU entered. In fact, your group hoped to get Binding Arbitration to have the arbitrator grant you Date of hire. He told your group that it wasnt going to happen straight Date of hire. You entered the agreement.

The Nic is the best you're going to get. Any other pilot group will be very cautious of the East pilots 'past' when it comes to deals.

It's funny how the East posters will avoid answering questions. Changing the subject is your way of avoiding the subject at hand. The fact remains, as you will see from the courts, that the Nic is final.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Binding arbitration is much more equivalent to a covenant marriage than it is to a marriage license. Yours is a pretty bad analogy really.

Or a pre-nup...

Jim

 

[EastUS]

It's funny how the East posters will avoid answering questions. Changing the subject is your way of avoiding the subject at hand. The fact remains, as you will see from the courts, that the Nic is final.

I think it fair to now assume that west posters have no aversion to responding to direct inquiry, so here's my question of the day for you. It's a very simple one and can be answered within whatever temporal restraints you see fit:

Given your stated beliefs; precisely or even approximately when can we all expect to see the first system bid based on the nic?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Or a pre-nup...

Jim

True enough. I might say the pre-nup is like the Transition Agreement and a Covenant is essentially the same as a Binding Arbitration Agreement. Many contracts use the term "covenant" in them to ensure that the parties have been informed that the agreement they are making cannot be broken without cause or penalty. It carries a heavier burden than the terms agreement or contract. Binding is inherently implied.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Unless a couple elects to enter into a covenant marriage (AZ has such a provision) which makes divorce a much more difficult matter. Couples who simply apply for a marriage license can revoke that license with relative ease (sad to say). But those enter into a covenant with each other have much bigger legal challenges ahead of them if one of them decides to split.

Binding arbitration is much more equivalent to a covenant marriage than it is to a marriage license. Yours is a pretty bad analogy really.

So, can covenant marriages be split up? That was my point. No one said it would be easy. I certainly didn't expect it. But we have courts for a reason. When the dust settles, if the 9th says the Nic is indeed final and binding, then my own personal opinion is that we gave it our best shot.

If that scenario materializes, I will fully expect (if LCC even survives) to retire with separate contracts six or seven years from now. And I am fully prepared to vote that way.

 

[CallawayGolf]

So, can covenant marriages be split up? That was my point. No one said it would be easy. I certainly didn't expect it. But we have courts for a reason. When the dust settles, if the 9th says the Nic is indeed final and binding, then my own personal opinion is that we gave it our best shot.

If that scenario materializes, I will fully expect (if LCC even survives) to retire with separate contracts six or seven years from now. And I am fully prepared to vote that way.

In a covenant marriage both parties can agree to split. In this case it would be handled much like any divorce. Not all that different from any contract where the two parties come to terms on terminating an existing agreement.

Covenant marriage protection is afforded, to those who select it, to prevent injury to the pre-defined innocent party from spouse who violates the covenant. Violation can occur through adultery, abandonment, abuse ect. where there is sufficient proof of the party’s actions. In this case the innocent spouse can essentially decide to force the marriage to continue until death or take all of the couple’s assets in a divorce without the guilty party having any say whatsoever (penalty for violating the covenant). It was put in place to offer a more binding aspect to marriages and also to protect the rights of the innocent from despicable spouses who run off with some new love interest or whatever.

 

[oscarjazz]

I agree. Had the defendants stopped the high school pranks when asked nicely (several times,) there would have been no Cactus 18. But NOOOOOOO! "We're going to show those east pilots they can't have a union we don't like, so let's just ignore the official requests to cease and desist, then see how they like that! What are they going to do? Take us to court?"

When did this happen? Two years ago? Everyone understands the bad blood that is on your property. He said, she said, they did it first, no they did it first. That is basically what I expected to hear out of my children 15 years ago when they were 10. If USAPA has leaders that want to be leaders, then they need to understand their responsibilities. They need to chuck aside their silly human pride and move ahead with unifying this pilot group. They should dump this lawsuit like last week. This is just a festering sore on your union and yet your union leaders refuse to lance it. Don't ask for settlement, drop it today.

I don't care if everything you allege is 100% true. It is just a bunch of baloney. During the NW-DL merger, the NW MEC dropped back into the "seniority is war" mode. They put out a bunch of false allegations against the Delta MEC, allegations that were proven false by their own testimony in the arbitration hearings. What did the DL MEC do. Nothing. They just sat there and took it because that was the fastest way to put the two groups together when the seniority list was done. Our MEC Chairman was personally attacked over and over and never said one word back.

I can't believe that any union member anywhere would look at this stinker of a lawsuit and the fact that it has gone on for almost two years as anything other than a travesty. The goal of your union is to unify the pilot group and work for the entire union. It is not to participate in some East-West war of attrition. Utter insanity, and there is not one word you can say that would justify this type of divisive action by your leaders. Cleary and the BPR should be ashamed they have not gotten rid of this.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Will somebody PLEASE hit that Victrola again.

I repeat it because you can't understand it.

In your heart, you know I am right.

 

[Freebird]

I think it fair to now assume that west posters have no aversion to responding to direct inquiry, so here's my question of the day for you. It's a very simple one and can be answered within whatever temporal restraints you see fit:

Given your stated beliefs; precisely or even approximately when can we all expect to see the first system bid based on the nic?

Answer: When we have a contract to vote on. The contract will pass and you can have the system bid. Simple.


If it dosent pass, then we will truly see how much resolve the East has. Usapa is afraid at this time to put out a contract for a vote, because it will show how much support they DONT have.

 

[Freebird]

Simple question for yewz guyz (its a 'Burg thing),

You agreed to binding arbitration, why can't you live the outcome?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I agree. Had the defendants stopped the high school pranks when asked nicely (several times,) there would have been no Cactus 18. But NOOOOOOO! "We're going to show those east pilots they can't have a union we don't like, so let's just ignore the official requests to cease and desist, then see how they like that! What are they going to do? Take us to court?"

Problem is usapa sued a bunch of people because of a web post, why on earth are they supposed to stop that? You and I are doing that right now.