US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

The PHX reps have announced a lot of stuff. We know all about the campaign. Concerning your fair share? Neither fair, nor share.

Just what I have come to expect from you. The same attitude that got usapa DFR'd.

Keep it up, the damage total rolls on.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yes, Mr Parker had such a big belly laugh, he canceled his appearance on the Larry King Live show that night.

CNN LARRY KING LIVE Pilots Say Airways Are Not Safe;

No he didn't. He stayed on Capital Hill to discuss oil prices and the negative effect speculators were having on the industry and the economy. Doug stated after the fact that if he had known socialist (my words) Larry was going to go off topic and discuss the ridiculous USAPA ad he would have made the appearance. Doug rarely backs away from a controversy, especially when he is in the right - which of course he was. The fuel issue was just another USAPA scam trying to gain public support for their fantasy cause. It worked so well for the pilots that Doug just opened up the checkbook and let USAPA write their own ticket - right? The company won that battle just like they will win every major battle the USAPA amateurs stick their necks out on.

 

[HPDriver]

Yes, Mr Parker had such a big belly laugh, he canceled his appearance on the Larry King Live show that night.

CNN LARRY KING LIVE Pilots Say Airways Are Not Safe;

Umm, ya. That was the reason.

USAPA sure showed him!

Now where's that pay parity...

 

[veritasaequitas]

Umm, ya. That was the reason.

USAPA sure showed him!

Now where's that pay parity...

The Kirby proposal is pay parity to a group of America West pilots that under cut the rest of the industry since their inception in 1983. It includes no furlough protection and an almost unlimited amount of regional jets. No wonder when your pilots jump seat on other airlines they slap you a high five.

It did not help that your former union leader JM, made a claim to Mr Parker in a video taped PHX pilot meeting that he saw East pilots taxing with all their engines running and their apu. With these false and unfounded accusations, slurring pilots, it makes it slightly more difficult to deal with management.

 

[Metroyet]

The Kirby proposal is pay parity to a group of America West pilots that under cut the rest of the industry since their inception in 1983.

Hmmm. 1983. Was that the last year that US Air wasn't an embarrassment to work for? Was that the magical year when the pilots felt a sense of pride for flying elmira/pit/utica/rochester and back again...thinking all the while they were the best paid "major" pilots in the US? Was that the last year that BK hasn't plagued AAA? I wouldn't know because I was in the 6th grade at the time...

YCSVNIIMNUYSA

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You're old Metro, I wasn't even born until 88.

 

[EastUS]

Hmmm. 1983. Was that the last year that US Air wasn't an embarrassment to work for? Was that the magical year when the pilots felt a sense of pride for flying elmira/pit/utica/rochester and back again...thinking all the while they were the best paid "major" pilots in the US? Was that the last year that BK hasn't plagued AAA? I wouldn't know because I was in the 6th grade at the time...

"Hmmm. 1983. Was that the last year that US Air wasn't an embarrassment to work for?" By no means, nor were PSA or Piedmont anything to be the least bit other than proud of being a part of at that time. It took a great many years of studied effort by incredibly inept management to essentially destroy all three airlines. On the other hand, AWA was, from it's inception, considered a place worthy of full sympathy for any who went there, mostly because they couldn't get jobs elsewhere imo..and the opinions of a great many others I know, most of which aren't even evil-easties. Look at the rate that people "jumped ship" from AWA whenever actual airline gigs were offered to them. Compare that to those at PSA/Piedmont/US. Don't believe that? = Do some research.

"I wouldn't know because I was in the 6th grade at the time..." None ever imagined otherwise........which readily explains some rather ludicrous notions as to what constitutes "seniority".

Oops!...is that the end-of-recess bell I hear ringing?

 

[veritasaequitas]

Hmmm. 1983. Was that the last year that US Air wasn't an embarrassment to work for? Was that the magical year when the pilots felt a sense of pride for flying elmira/pit/utica/rochester and back again...thinking all the while they were the best paid "major" pilots in the US? Was that the last year that BK hasn't plagued AAA? I wouldn't know because I was in the 6th grade at the time...

YCSVNIIMNUYSA

Your America West pilots were quoted in an article that they undercut USAirways pilots for years. It was well after 1983.

""They made their decision to work at USAir; I made mine to work at America West, which, by the way, has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S. The East pilots have been paid far and above what America West pilots have been paid over the same period of time doing the same job."

America West pilots to brethren at US Airways: Be thankful article.

Here is a more factual study than yours;


MIT Airline Data Project

 

[EastUS]

It did not help that your former union leader JM, made a claim to Mr Parker in a video taped PHX pilot meeting that he saw East pilots taxing with all their engines running and their apu. With these false and unfounded accusations, slurring pilots, it makes it slightly more difficult to deal with management.

My favorite part was when JM asked if he could "turn them in?" whew!..Now THERE'S some "real labor group leadership" for you. Add to that the disgustingly servile, slobbering hero-worship towards management evidenced from west posters = "Doug rarely backs away from a controversy, especially when he is in the right - which of course he was." (Sigh...I'll never really understand the childish stupidity shown by them imagining themselves to be on a "frist name basis" in earnest with the fellow)...and...well....Warmly embracing nic or no nic; I just can't imagine ANY real support from the west for ANY confrontation with management EVER...and management must laugh themselves sick over it all. Why shouldn't they? They've historically kept the west labor groups at the lowest rung of airline compensation since AWA's inception.

 

[EastUS]

Why? Just to please the west pilots?

The company has nothing on the table we are interested in, so we are not going to shout for a vote simply to please the west..

Concur completely. With the company's "negotiations" as they are?...It would make no sense, and I can't recall even so much as one time that morning prayers and meditation have provided me any sign whatsoever that the uppermost thing on my day's to-do list should be fretting over ways to best please the west.

 

[EastUS]

"They made their decision to work at USAir; I made mine to work at America West, which, by the way, has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S.

It seems very reasonable for any/all to wonder a bit about the "I made mine to work at America West, which, by the way, has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S." Would it be entirely uncharitable, if yet seemingly reasonable to assume that none would rationally select the outfit that "has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S."? Is it, just perhaps, more likely the honest case that the "decision" was made for this individual by the employment screeners at the airlines that weren't historically the "LOWEST paid" operations? I suppose one might postulate a family in residence at PHX, or simply an overwhelming personal passion for the area, coupled with an almost pathological aversion to commuting (hmmm..that last doesn't really work though...it flies in the face of the west's adamance about "No Fences!"/etc)..OK..I'm just plain confused ...can someone clear this person's reasoning up just a bit?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I was going on what USAPA claims, 5000 pilots.

USAPA represents 5000 pilots. That doesn't mean there are 5000 members in good standing. My post had to do with voting on a contract, and not all 5000 of those pilots will get to vote. I stand by my 3000+ statement. It is correct, because any figure over 3000 is included in the statement.

Here is a little surprise for you. The reps have announced that we have over 1000 members in PHX now. The west is growing and we are coming to get our fair share.

I am delighted to hear this actually. And I am not at all surprised, despite the west rhetoric that USAPA will not get one penny in dues money. No one wants to keep you from getting your fair share. The east simply wants to hold on to their fair share, too.

The Kirby gave the east way to much of the pie. The nac is going to have to increase the amount the west gets.

The NAC doesn't pay you. The company does. When the company gets real about what they will have to fork over, we may actually have a contract to vote on. (I'm not saying it will pass, mind you, but if the company is realistic the NAC and BPR will send it out for a vote. Don't hold your breath on the company being realistic, though.) And whatever the west gets in the negotiations, the east gets, too. So, I hope the west pay goes to $200+ per hour, 45 days vacation, a one-for-nothing rig and checks sent directly to the bank. Because that's where my pay will be, too.

 

[nycbusdriver]

When your mortgage company sells your loan to another bank, did you tell them you didnt have to abide by the terms since the companies are different?

They absolutely cannot do that without your permission. But, go wade through those closing documents and you will find that you gave them that permission when you signed the mortgage agreement.

 

[Black Swan]

Hmmm. 1983. Was that the last year that US Air wasn't an embarrassment to work for? Was that the magical year when the pilots felt a sense of pride for flying elmira/pit/utica/rochester and back again...thinking all the while they were the best paid "major" pilots in the US? Was that the last year that BK hasn't plagued AAA? I wouldn't know because I was in the 6th grade at the time...

YCSVNIIMNUYSA

Well, not bad to take in 120 k for doing it then in a BAC-111. As far as embarrassment-1983
, isn't that the year Men at Work came out with that great song from Down Under? I hear some of the AWA guys saw some of their shows live. What an opportunity! I have never been embarrassed to work here. Our guys NEVER compromised their integrity.

 

[oscarjazz]

My favorite part was when JM asked if he could "turn them in?" whew!..Now THERE'S some "real labor group leadership" for you.

That is bad leadership. Almost like a union suing your own pilots for, even if all allegations are true, what amount to high school pranks. There is no reason on Earth why this lawsuit should have ever been filed, much less continue to be prosecuted. This Cactus 18 lawsuit just smacks of union misdirection for its failed policies. No logical person would spend a dime of dues money on this stinker of a case that, even if they win completely would result in minimal monetary damages and would split their pilot group even more. What are these USAPA guys thinking? How can the union membership allow this lunacy to continue?