US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[oldiebutgoody]

I'm not sure where the idea of dual ratification came from. Anyone want to cite the specific chapter and verse that guaranteed it?

It's in the Transition Agreement.

 

[cleardirect]

I just read sec 1 scope from the neg. comm. Kirby must think we're fools. 353 RJ's of which 153 can be 190's. Addington or no Addington, win or lose in the 9th, this scope + parity + 3%, I might be retired before we agree to a new contract, and I'm only 52. Some one needs to slap some sense into that boy. :down:

Care to answer the question where the number 353 came from? Why is that in the scope portion?

Don't know, do some research. Hint it is USAPA's fault. Wonder why?

 

[boeingplt]

Care to answer the question where the number 353 came from? Why is that in the scope portion?

Don't know, do some research. Hint it is USAPA's fault. Wonder why?

USAPA would have had to have been really ahead of the ball on that one as they didn't exist yet. You see, the 353 came from the JNC process. The USAPA NAC and the Company haven't discussed scope yet. Maybe you should do some research.

Oh yeah, I forgot, you're substituting your own reality.

 

[nic4us]

I'm not sure where the idea of dual ratification came from. Anyone want to cite the specific chapter and verse that guaranteed it?

Good question. I just re-re-re-read the TA and cannot find it in there.

That TA is getting so old most of it has been violated by either the company or usapa by now that large parts of it are meaningless.

 

[cleardirect]

I see that the MDA case is progressing at the typical speed of justice. For all of you hoping for a miracle this year keep hoping.


The schedule for this case is moving REEEEEALY slow.

Just a few dates into the future.

March 31, 2010
June 2, 2010
June 28, 2010

That is just the summary judgement portion. The trial has not even been scheduled yet that is if there even is one. Oh well maybe 2011.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA would have had to have been really ahead of the ball on that one as they didn't exist yet. You see, the 353 came from the JNC process. The USAPA NAC and the Company haven't discussed scope yet. Maybe you should do some research.

Oh yeah, I forgot, you're substituting your own reality.

Nope wrong again. You had better dig a little deeper.

Nothing to do with the JNC it is more recent than that.

 

[boeingplt]

Nope wrong again. You had better dig a little deeper.

Nothing to do with the JNC it is more recent than that.

You need a better source. The 353 is straight out of the Kirby Proposal May 2007.

 

[cleardirect]

You need a better source. The 353 is straight out of the Kirby Proposal May 2007.

Really, where did you get a copy of the Kirby proposal? Unless you were on the NC I don't believe that the details were ever released.

Would you like to try again? Come on think it through, it was much more recent than 2007.

Use a life line call a friend, figure it out.

 

[boeingplt]

Really, where did you get a copy of the Kirby proposal? Unless you were on the NC I don't believe that the details were ever released.

Would you like to try again? Come on think it through, it was much more recent than 2007.

Use a life line call a friend, figure it out.

Most recent NAC update on Kirby Scope. Maybe you should phone a rep.

 

[cubfan]

Nope wrong again. You had better dig a little deeper.

Nothing to do with the JNC it is more recent than that.

Are you saying that the numbers are just made up?

 

[cubfan]

Really, where did you get a copy of the Kirby proposal? Unless you were on the NC I don't believe that the details were ever released.

Would you like to try again? Come on think it through, it was much more recent than 2007.

Use a life line call a friend, figure it out.

Does it really matter when, where, or how, I'm sure thats what Kirby wants. I think sometimes you may have your eye centered so much on the NIC that your losing sight of whats going on around you. News flash: the Nic will take care of it's self, it's out of our hands.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I see that the MDA case is progressing at the typical speed of justice. For all of you hoping for a miracle this year keep hoping.


The schedule for this case is moving REEEEEALY slow.

Just a few dates into the future.

March 31, 2010
June 2, 2010
June 28, 2010

That is just the summary judgement portion. The trial has not even been scheduled yet that is if there even is one. Oh well maybe 2011.

The timeline is typical for a civil federal court case. A group of east pilots (about 300 or so) are plaintiffs in a case suing ALPA (the company wriggled out by declaring bankrutpcy the second time, and the RSA skipped out over state sovereignty) over the surrender of the pension. The case was filed in 2003 and is currently on appeal and review in the federal appeals court. The district judge dragged it out for years, and the appeals court has had it for about a year now with no hint of when it might rule.

It's been over 6 1/2 years in process, and if the appeals court rules in our favor, it will go back to the district court to be dragged out once again...probably for several more years.

 

[Hate2fly]

The timeline is typical for a civil federal court case. A group of east pilots (about 300 or so) are plaintiffs in a case suing ALPA (the company wriggled out by declaring bankrutpcy the second time, and the RSA skipped out over state sovereignty) over the surrender of the pension. The case was filed in 2003 and is currently on appeal and review in the federal appeals court. The district judge dragged it out for years, and the appeals court has had it for about a year now with no hint of when it might rule.

It's been over 6 1/2 years in process, and if the appeals court rules in our favor, it will go back to the district court to be dragged out once again...probably for several more years.

nycbusdriver,

I just can't believe it could take this long for a DFR............look at the desert DFR completed in record time of just 7.5 months. The west has waited so long to be wide body pilots......how can this happen? Playing X-BOX, Mesa, Trans States we checked out as captains in less than a year. We deserve to be wide body captains immediately! Our careers have stalled in the west operation. We are very upset and need to reach the next level ASAP. We are all honest and trust worthy and have all kinds of integrity. This Nic thing is coming up on 3 years in May! How can this happen? We are younger and smarter than the east pilots. How can this happen? We want the Kirby now! We really don't know what is in it, but we want it. If we could just get the Nic, we could help the east pilots with so many issues that they just don't understand. We could take over the union and really give them expert advice on flying issues. We really just want to help the east pilots get the contract that they deserve.

How can this happen?

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

Most recent NAC update on Kirby Scope. Maybe you should phone a rep.

Well if it came from USAPA it must be the absolute truth because they would never lie.

T/A 8

Do some research, you know the one usapa lost about how many RJ's the company can fly.

 

[cubfan]

Care to answer the question where the number 353 came from? Why is that in the scope portion?

Don't know, do some research. Hint it is USAPA's fault. Wonder why?

The Kirby Proposal and You
Part Two - Scope



Over the past two decades, the Pilots of US Airways have suffered concessions that have touched every corner of our contract, concessions that have rendered the quality of our professional lives critically injured. As we triage these injuries, it is vital that we identify their sources so that they don’t continue.

At the very top of the list is the damage done by the wholesale outsourcing of our flying. All things considered, US Airways is half the size it was 20 years ago, and while our airline has shrunk, our express affiliates have grown to the point where their pilots perform more than half of OUR flying. Additionally, code share agreements with other major airlines generate revenue opportunities for the Company without the requirement of an investment in its most valuable asset – its employees – and YOU are paying for it.

The Kirby proposal contains scope provisions that would set a new standard for gutting our careers. Here are just a few to consider.

The basic concept for Section 1 SCOPE begins with the rule that all flying on behalf of the Company will be performed by pilots on the US Airways System Seniority List. While both the current East and West scope sections have limited exceptions, the Kirby Proposal would take even greater liberties in this area. In fact, the exceptions have almost overtaken the rule as it is, and the Kirby Proposal would only take them to new heights.


Both East and West not only have minimum fleet requirements, but also minimum utilization requirements. This is vital since this combination produces a minimum block hour requirement, which drives the number of pilots on the property. The Kirby Proposal has no minimum utilization provision, thereby allowing the Company to reduce block hours at will, with no limit. Not requiring the Company to utilize the aircraft in the minimum fleet renders the provision useless and impossible to defend.


The Kirby Proposal would allow the Company to operate 353 RJs (153 of which can be up to 90 seats) and turbo-props (up to 78 seats - Q400). History has more than proven that allowing the Company to operate additional aircraft at our affiliates will never result in anything other than the continued shrinking of our airline, endless stagnation and an ever-recurring cycle of furloughs and displacements.


The Kirby Proposal seeks to allow code share agreements with other domestic airlines besides United. While the Company claims that scope relief in general is meant to increase feed to our hubs and provide growth opportunities for us, that has been far from our experience. Why would we ever believe that this is any different?
These are just a few of the “highlightsâ€￾ of what the Kirby scope provisions represent.

The effects of the erosion of our contract are made exponentially worse by the massive stagnation created by encroachments into our scope protections. This attack on our flying opportunities is always veiled in assertions that the Company wants to feed our hubs so that we can grow our airline. How has that worked for us so far? It hasn’t; all it has done has resulted in the outsourcing of our jobs to other pilots at the unfathomable expense of our own. The Kirby Proposal is no different. It must stop now, and rejecting what the Kirby Proposal represents is the first step.

As always, stay informed, stay strong and continue to be good union pilots.

Paul DiOrio - Chairman
704-340-5098
pdiorio@usairlinepilots.org

pull the blinders off.