US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

If you're embarrassed to put on the uniform, then do us all a favor and quit. I'm certain you would not be missed.

And, assuming you would rather complain than quit, then do me a favor and don't bother flying with us. I'm VERY certain you would not be missed.

How about the 3rd option; removing the source of the embarassment? What suggestions do you have?

 

[luvn737s]

While some have coined the phrase premature adjudication, I would counter that the east pilots waited too long to form USAPA. Had they done this prior to the Transition Agreement, they would likely have unrestricted access to all the marbles.

 

[nycbusdriver]

How about the 3rd option; removing the source of the embarassment? What suggestions do you have?

It's not worth suicide, man. Get some counseling before you consider that (third) option.

While some have coined the phrase premature adjudication, I would counter that the east pilots waited too long to form USAPA. Had they done this prior to the Transition Agreement, they would likely have unrestricted access to all the marbles.

Yes, timing is everything. Had Tempe bargained in good faith prior to the Nicolau shame being published, we would have had a single contract, Nicolau would have been the seniority list, lawyers on both sides would not be getting rich, Parker would have probably already been able to sell off the airline and retire to the country club bar, the east pilots still living in San Diego would be happily flying PHX-Hawaii, and the west pilots not interested in Philly's transatlantic flying would be plotting their North Atlantic tracks tonight.

Yep. Timing is everything.

 

[Metroyet]

While some have coined the phrase premature adjudication, I would counter that the east pilots waited too long to form USAPA. Had they done this prior to the Transition Agreement, they would likely have unrestricted access to all the marbles.

Dual Ratification would still be alive and well if they had done that. They thought they were shrewd tough guys by eliminating the West pilots union against their will. They thought that was an instant checkmate...But, as per normal with anything USAPA, that blew up in their shrewd faces. In fact, the Nic award is now etched in stone whereas it wasn't with ALPA. That's what happens when one lets emotion do all the critical thinking. They checkmated themselves...with their almighty "votes".

 

[CallawayGolf]

It's not worth suicide, man. Get some counseling before you consider that (third) option.

It's USAPA that is slowly committing suicide - one ill-advised legal blunder at a time.

Yes, timing is everything. Had Tempe bargained in good faith prior to the Nicolau shame being published, we would have had a single contract, Nicolau would have been the seniority list, lawyers on both sides would not be getting rich, Parker would have probably already been able to sell off the airline and retire to the country club bar, the east pilots still living in San Diego would be happily flying PHX-Hawaii, and the west pilots not interested in Philly's transatlantic flying would be plotting their North Atlantic tracks tonight.

Yep. Timing is everything.

Making an offer the other party rejects or counters with is still a good faith offer (Kirby)
Making an offer the other party cannot legally accept is a bad faith offer (DOH/USAPA)
The inability to distinguish between the two makes USAPA look like prepubescent amateurs. I guess looks aren’t deceiving unless you've been drinking too much of the union kool-aid.

 

[luvn737s]

It's not worth suicide, man. Get some counseling before you consider that (third) option.

Hey, a little humor to lighten the day! Thanks!

 

[boeingplt]

This illustrates one of the worst things about communicating on message boards. Instead of providing any kind of supporting evidence or even a well-reasoned opinion one only has to say "you could not be more incorrect". This is what I mean by chest-thumping. Well, boeingplt, since you said it's so I guess it must be. You sure showed me.

So when you last talked to Mike what did he have to say to you regarding his confidence level? I am assuming you attempted to gather evidence to support your inference that his confidence is waning, so when you contacted him what did he have to say?

 

[CallawayGolf]

So when you last talked to Mike what did he have to say to you regarding his confidence level? I am assuming you attempted to gather evidence to support your inference that his confidence is waning, so when you contacted him what did he have to say?

Well I wouldn't say Mr. Cleary's confidence is waning. He's too detached from reality for anything like that.

 

[Freebird]

Quit? And miss all the fun? I just hope you dont turn 65 before we get a chance to fly together.

Personally, I will be just fine either way. Somewhere over the Atlantic I hope to hear about your glorious days flying the DC-9 from PIT to SYR.

From the looks of the "Major" Airline pilots walking around in CLT/PHL....it appears you all dont like yourselves much either. Rather depressed group.


Freebird
Int'l Pilot

I like the way that sounds. Next time I'm at Starbucks in CLT, I'll introduce myself with the new moniker. Is there such a thing as E-190 International Captain? Save me a place in line at Bojangles ! Ahead of you, of course...

 

[exB717Flyer]

I am assuming you attempted to gather evidence to support your inference that his confidence is waning, ...

Of course. I read all of USAPA's emails. If Dear Leader Cleary was still confident he'd not only say so, he'd brag about it. He's a union leader and this court case is one of the most important issues on every USAirways pilots' minds. Silence says more than words.

But let's quit dancing around the issue. No responsible party should ever publicly express "supreme confidence" in the outcome of an appeal. It was a dumb thing to say and he hasn't retracted it. One expects a competent leader to carefully vet his words in public and also to properly manage the expectations of his constituents. Need I remind you of your previous leadership's refusal to expeditiously release the Nicolau arbitration transcripts? Had the Easties read them they wouldn't have been so surprised by the result. Kim Jong Cleary has similarly mismanaged your expectations. Too bad for you.

 

[boeingplt]

Of course. I read all of USAPA's emails. If Dear Leader Cleary was still confident he'd not only say so, he'd brag about it. He's a union leader and this court case is one of the most important issues on every USAirways pilots' minds. Silence says more than words.

But let's quit dancing around the issue. No responsible party should ever publicly express "supreme confidence" in the outcome of an appeal. It was a dumb thing to say and he hasn't retracted it. One expects a competent leader to carefully vet his words in public and also to properly manage the expectations of his constituents. Need I remind you of your previous leadership's refusal to expeditiously release the Nicolau arbitration transcripts? Had the Easties read them they wouldn't have been so surprised by the result. Kim Jong Cleary has similarly mismanaged your expectations. Too bad for you.

You are going to lose in the 9th

 

[Metroyet]

You are going to lose in the 9th

 

[CallawayGolf]

You are going to lose in the 9th

Ah, claiming clairvoyance. That’s just what this conversation needed.

Care to define what it means for Addington to lose in the 9th? What does that mean for the case, USAPA and AOL? The most likely outcome is for them to uphold Wake. If they don’t fully uphold his rulings, the case goes back to his courtroom with whatever court of appeals instructions they may have for re-trial. Even a lack of ripeness ruling is not a loss for AOL and it isn’t a win for USAPA either. The merits of the case remain until ripeness can be proven which likely puts USAPA back on the losing side all over again. The chances that the 9th rules in such a way so as to put an immediate end to this matter is, oh I don’t know, say a number so close to zero it might as well just be zero.

Now if you want to claim everyone except Cleary and SSMP loses regardless of the how the 9th rules, then I'm fully on board with that.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You are going to lose in the 9th

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAkRU583fg

 

[boeingplt]

If they don’t fully uphold his rulings, the case goes back to his courtroom with whatever court of appeals instructions they may have for re-trial.

If it is not ripe, Wake didn't happen. You get to start over when it is ripe - whenever that might be - and whether it is Wake again, if and when you get it back onto the docket, will be up to the luck of the draw.

Dig down deep, you're going to need it.