US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Flip- I was at the roadshow. I heard Bob Kirch and Co. state with extreme clarity when asked why they went off DOH "the judge said we can't argue DOH." Me-" where is it in the transcripts?" Kirch-"it was said off the record..." The room blew up. First, Nicolau most likely never said it. Second- he is not a judge. Thirdly- if he said that, he should have been removed. An arbitrator cannot make you take a position. He can recommend what he considers a smart move as an impasse breaker, but he cannot make the final call. This is what happened. I was there. What you have put out there is a fairy tale.

Amazing how you happen to know everyone, talked to everyone that knows everything. Yet you do not know what T/A 8 or the Suzie arbitration are.

I don't care what you think you heard. It is a written document. Read the Trump/Us Air arbitration award. It says right in there that the US Air offer changed from DOH to W-2. You DOH gold standard integrity ridden guys wanted to place the 130 or pilots by what they made because you knew that they made less than most of the east pilots.


BTW "the judge" the same "judge" told you that you were not going to get DOH in this arbitration. So tell us oh all knowing why did you listen to that him that time but no this time. Did you think that he was kidding?

I think that I will believe what is written, instead of some story that you try and tell. How about you go and actually read the award.

 

[nic4us]

Thanks for making that effort. Understood then, and all pompous, self-righteous indignation hereby withdrawn It seems the incivility was entirely on the part of the other fellow. Said incivility within the workplace I do not agree with, nor would I agree with placing one's own personal issues ahead of getting the rest of one's crew to the hotel at the end of a typically long day. I'd offer the sad observation though, that this might possibly serve as an unhappy "survey" indicator, if even just the one guy met by chance, that there's "not-so-much" east sentiment towards the west notions of "Put out a contract to vote on and it will pass"/etc. As that was an east captain you reference.....well...so much for the east's intransigence being limited to some fantasized "Angry FO Club"....merely an observation.

No big deal, and hardly an effort on my part. I did feel awkward, because I felt he was putting his crew in a position that they did not necessarily support.

In any event, this and any of my other somewhat clumsy encounters, will not change my position. That is, I do not deny jumpseats, assistance or cordiality to my fellow employees, no matter their background or company lineage.

I do not think a contract put out today would pass. Nor do I think the east furor over the Nic resides soley in the F/O ranks. However, as I have said before, for the senior east pilots who support their junior east counterparts, by doing so they disenfranchise the West pilots who they seek to make the junior class, and those same West pilots would be the ones you would have to fly with in the future if you get your way. That is, if you make Colello senior to Nic4us, Colello makes captain and Nic4us or Metroyet or Nicelanding etc.. now rides shotgun for EastUs.

 

[nic4us]

The only assessment I see on he horizon, is yours. When you get tanked in Addington, you better start baking brownies.

Stop scanning the horizon, and start looking on the front porch. That incessant (sp.?) phone ringing is not the Cactus 18, it is the collection agency seeking payment of your debt.

 

[Black Swan]

Amazing how you happen to know everyone, talked to everyone that knows everything. Yet you do not know what T/A 8 or the Suzie arbitration are.

I don't care what you think you heard. It is a written document. Read the Trump/Us Air arbitration award. It says right in there that the US Air offer changed from DOH to W-2. You DOH gold standard integrity ridden guys wanted to place the 130 or pilots by what they made because you knew that they made less than most of the east pilots.


BTW "the judge" the same "judge" told you that you were not going to get DOH in this arbitration. So tell us oh all knowing why did you listen to that him that time but no this time. Did you think that he was kidding?

I think that I will believe what is written, instead of some story that you try and tell. How about you go and actually read the award.

Maybe if you actually knew that the grievance is not officially titled as the Suzie Grievance, but has a date and number assigned to it, I might know it. From what I was told Suzie was some girl pilot who had a sob story about a bunch of kids at home, and she was being unfairly singled out. And you guys actually thought you could file it and win it because of that and no contractual backing to cite. Brilliant.

 

[Black Swan]

Stop scanning the horizon, and start looking on the front porch. That incessant (sp.?) phone ringing is not the Cactus 18, it is the collection agency seeking payment of your debt.

I'm seriously sweating this one. I have a great Brownie recipe for you guys for raising the cash for the next round of Addington. It has some fruit in it. RIPE fruit only, or it doesn't work out.

 

[Hate2fly]

Maybe if you actually knew that the grievance is not officially titled as the Suzie Grievance, but has a date and number assigned to it, I might know it. From what I was told Suzie was some girl pilot who had a sob story about a bunch of kids at home, and she was being unfairly singled out. And you guys actually thought you could file it and win it because of that and no contractual backing to cite. Brilliant.

Black Swan,

Internal union dispute..........I see an opening! The desert judge and his Harvard background should have known better. A Penn grad would never make the decisions that he did during the desert trial.

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Black Swan,

Internal union dispute..........I see an opening! The desert judge and his Harvard background should have known better. A Penn grad would never make the decisions that he did during the desert trial.

Hate

As you correctly say- "the Desert Judge took them as far as he could." They are on their own now, swimming in the cold waters of judicial reality. I hope they brought their life rafts....

 

[cleardirect]

Maybe if you actually knew that the grievance is not officially titled as the Suzie Grievance, but has a date and number assigned to it, I might know it. From what I was told Suzie was some girl pilot who had a sob story about a bunch of kids at home, and she was being unfairly singled out. And you guys actually thought you could file it and win it because of that and no contractual backing to cite. Brilliant.

As usual ignored the main point. How about reading the Trump award and stop telling stories. The position of the east pilots during that merger was not DOH but how much a pilot made.

Care to make a guess how the list turned out? Do you know?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Black Swan,

Internal union dispute..........I see an opening! The desert judge and his Harvard background should have known better. A Penn grad would never make the decisions that he did during the desert trial.

Hate

So, personal attacks on Wake is all you have left? I've asked all you guys, if you have serious beef's about Wake as a judge, show us all some good empirical proof. Come on, his decisions are public, why not enlighten us.

It sure sounds like Wake owns you, jealousy is such a nasty trait.

If you all lose in the 9th, are you gonna continue the ad hominem attacks on the judges there? Take some responsibility and stop the brainless attacks on Nic and Wake. Seems like its the leaders of your sham union that made all the mistakes that got you here.

 

[Black Swan]

Maybe if you actually knew that the grievance is not officially titled as the Suzie Grievance, but has a date and number assigned to it, I might know it. From what I was told Suzie was some girl pilot who had a sob story about a bunch of kids at home, and she was being unfairly singled out. And you guys actually thought you could file it and win it because of that and no contractual backing to cite. Brilliant.

But I guess she DESERVED to win. After all, she is entitled to a LOT of things.

 

[oscarjazz]

Flip- I was at the roadshow. I heard Bob Kirch and Co. state with extreme clarity when asked why they went off DOH "the judge said we can't argue DOH." Me-" where is it in the transcripts?" Kirch-"it was said off the record..." The room blew up. First, Nicolau most likely never said it. Second- he is not a judge. Thirdly- if he said that, he should have been removed. An arbitrator cannot make you take a position. He can recommend what he considers a smart move as an impasse breaker, but he cannot make the final call. This is what happened. I was there. What you have put out there is a fairy tale.

Actually, US Air's initial proposal was to go by date of hire, but they wanted the Trump Shuttle guys to use the date they were spun off from Eastern as their date of hire. They were told that they couldn't invent a new date of hire for those pilots and then they fell back onto a W-2 based integration. In the end it was a status and category integration.

 

[Black Swan]

So, personal attacks on Wake is all you have left? I've asked all you guys, if you have serious beef's about Wake as a judge, show us all some good empirical proof. Come on, his decisions are public, why not enlighten us.

It sure sounds like Wake owns you, jealousy is such a nasty trait.

If you all lose in the 9th, are you gonna continue the ad hominem attacks on the judges there? Take some responsibility and stop the brainless attacks on Nic and Wake. Seems like its the leaders of your sham union that made all the mistakes that got you here.

No personal attacks. As far as empirical proof? The 9th will be the judge of that.

 

[Black Swan]

Actually, US Air's initial proposal was to go by date of hire, but they wanted the Trump Shuttle guys to use the date they were spun off from Eastern as their date of hire. They were told that they couldn't invent a new date of hire for those pilots and then they fell back onto a W-2 based integration. In the end it was a status and category integration.

Not SPUN OFF. They resigned from EAL to go to TRUMP. That is the fact. If you resign from Eastern, like all the other guys that went to Airways did, how can you then go back and retrieve your Eastern DOH?

 

[cleardirect]

Black Swan,

Internal union dispute..........I see an opening! The desert judge and his Harvard background should have known better. A Penn grad would never make the decisions that he did during the desert trial.

Hate

Internal union dispute? Maybe you forgot that the company is also involved with this. That means that this is not a purely internal dispute.

If the ninth upholds judge Wake will all of you east guys admit that he got it right, or will you guys not believe that either and demand another 9 people tell you that you are wrong?

 

[cleardirect]

But I guess she DESERVED to win. After all, she is entitled to a LOT of things.

Yes she did deserve to win. But the difference between some of the east pilots and the west. We did not like it but accepted the result of binding arbitration and have moved on.

If the east pilots would only do the same.