US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Flippin43]

"Cheap shot" may be a bit off the mark. Inaccurate would be more like it. The "Patiently Awaited Their Turn For Long Awaited Attrition F/O Club" has a nice ring.

Patiently awaited at a company that had run out of future. Your choice.

West guys, Not the best paid but opportunities were there for the future. Don't believe that ......your choice.

Making West guys make up for your career that had for its most Junior active pilot a 17 year guy....... the Arbitraitor said .........No they don't have to.


Don't like that?..........Your choice, ........probably, .........but we don't care.


Flip

 

[EastUS]

Patiently awaited at a company that had run out of future.

Yet...the east is still around, as for better or worse is the airline's name. Your observation is "interesting", given the almost constant bombarding from the west regarding east persepectives having no supposed notions of "reality" contained within....

So; What was/is the actual "reality"?..That the east "had run out of future"?..or is still around to this day? So much for fantasies and "expectations" versus reality.....No matter really. Actual reality has a way of eluding most that view the world through any "relative" lens.

 

[EastUS]

West guys, Not the best paid but opportunities were there for the future. Don't believe that ......your choice.

"opportunities were there for the future."Really? Let's revisit the "reality" check arena. How's that actually been working out for you? "Don't believe that.....your choice", but do kindly explain how your notions there have ANY overlap with (or even touch) reality?

 

[luvn737s]

cynic,

When you have an arbitrator wipe out 17 years of your career with the stroke of a pen, you will then understand.

Hate

No, failing to go fill out an application with your own pen at a sustainable airline wiped out 17 years.

And ATA merger could very well have gone DOH or relative seniority due the similarity in pilot group demographics. Nicolau knew that relative seniority was the only way to merge two disparate pilot groups like AWA and US.

But you haven't missed your last opportunity. If you think things will never improve for you here, by all means find an airline where they will.

 

[luvn737s]

Perhaps I'm being exceptionally dense here...but; I can't find any truly viable argument therein for the east to suddenly and warmly embrace the nic, although...the possibility of "the West joins forces with (?) Bye Bye" does have some significant appeal....

Typical pilot-centric attitude. The airline is merged except for pilots and flight attendants. There is no way to parse the west or east at this point.

 

[luvn737s]

Forget it, Clear will only believe what is broadcast west of the Mississippi. If it comes from any source of the east, it must be a lie. He won't even read contract updates, must all be lies.

I'd read the Kirby proposal without editorial additions. Where on the USAPA site can I find that?

 

[EastUS]

Typical pilot-centric attitude.

There is no way to parse the west or east at this point.

1) I'd thought this was a pilot issues thread.....?

2) While I've no real personal optimism that the incredible distress 'tween west-east will vanish through the deus ex machina of an additional corporate transaction that splits the "warring tribes"....To bluntly assert that "There is no way to parse the west or east at this point is sadly representative of a degree of evidenced "innocence" I honestly must find to be nothing short of amazing. I'm interested here though. As you've asserted such to be fact..well...precisely what element(s) would actually prevent such a thing from transpiring?

 

[Reed Richards]

Happy Valentines Day! I wanted to show you all the new suit Sue gave me this morning..no more street clothes!!!!

No white smoke from the top of the Ninth yet.

Johnny and Ben have their own blog, so here is my plug:

http://unfactualbias.com/wordpress/

See you all soon!

RR

 

[Hate2fly]

The Levitators are back.

You boys are about to get spanked by the 9th........you are going to owe the heart doctor some money!

Next will be our LOA93 pay restoration.

How is that nic thing working out for you in the west.

You guys really should play the lottery you will have a better shot at winning a couple of bucks.

Republic is going to luv you guys.

Hate

 

[luvn737s]

Why is it the last time a union brought home the bacon for the pilots, that union was ALPA?

Trying to convince the world you've gone VEGAN?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Lets play a mind game.

Should the 9th rule that Addington is not ripe, the clock is reset. The west is then looking at pursuing a new round of expensive litigation somewhere in the future - supposedly when the case IS ripe. This would supposedly transpire when the damage is actually done to the west and would take place after a new joint contract had been ratified. Essentially, the west would have to vote for a new contract and then take it's CBA to court for the content of that contract. I guess it could happen.

OTOH, the east knows that if the 9th does not address the issue of fairness in the Nicolau award, and limits it's ruling only to the issue of ripeness, then we have only won a delaying action. We will all be right back to where we are today - barring any dramatic developments on the M&A front. For many in the east - delay is good. Significant attrition may very well resume before a new joint contract sees the light of day. It could happen.

OTOH, there may be another possibility. Lets call it Wye River II. Due to fatigue, financial and emotional cost, both sides realize that compromise may be better than this Mexican standoff. We sit down yet again, change the seniority language in our C&BL's, and accomplish what Nicolau failed to accomplish - craft a seniority list acceptable to both sides.

It could happen.

 

[nic4us]

You boys are about to get spanked by the 9th........you are going to owe the heart doctor some money!

Next will be our LOA93 pay restoration.

Republic is going to luv you guys.

Hate

I would rather owe him the money, than try and default on my obligations to him.

Hope you get your LOA deal.

I am sure Republic will love us, when we show up with 210 Airbus 319/320/321s.

 

[cubfan]

Lets play a mind game.

Should the 9th rule that Addington is not ripe, the clock is reset. The west is then looking at pursuing a new round of expensive litigation somewhere in the future - supposedly when the case IS ripe. This would supposedly transpire when the damage is actually done to the west and would take place after a new joint contract had been ratified. Essentially, the west would have to vote for a new contract and then take it's CBA to court for the content of that contract. I guess it could happen.

OTOH, the east knows that if the 9th does not address the issue of fairness in the Nicolau award, and limits it's ruling only to the issue of ripeness, then we have only won a delaying action. We will all be right back to where we are today - barring any dramatic developments on the M&A front. For many in the east - delay is good. Significant attrition may very well resume before a new joint contract sees the light of day. It could happen.

OTOH, there may be another possibility. Lets call it Wye River II. Due to fatigue, financial and emotional cost, both sides realize that compromise may be better than this Mexican standoff. We sit down yet again, change the seniority language in our C&BL's, and accomplish what Nicolau failed to accomplish - craft a seniority list acceptable to both sides.

It could happen.

I agree, good points.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Should the 9th rule that Addington is not ripe, the clock is reset. <snip> Essentially, the west would have to vote for a new contract...

Vote on a new contract, not for. Common sense would say that if the West voted for a contract containing a DOH list it would take the wind out of the sails and make another suit useless - if effect West pilots (or a least a majority) agreed to a DOH integration by voting for the contract.

OTOH, there may be another possibility. Lets call it Wye River II.

Who would negotiate for the West - USAPA?

I guess in theory USAPA could give West their own BPR, not bound by the USAPA officer's wishes or USAPA's C&B/L, which would appoint a West merger committee who would negotiate on behalf of the West. But what if negotiations couldn't reach a solution (again!!)? Back to an arbitrator agreeable to both sides?

I think, as unfortunate as it is, that this will have to play out in the courts. Once that's settled (possibly soon) a new contract will hopefully be ready to vote on sooner rather than later.

Jim

 

[oscarjazz]

Lets play a mind game.

Should the 9th rule that Addington is not ripe, the clock is reset. The west is then looking at pursuing a new round of expensive litigation somewhere in the future - supposedly when the case IS ripe. This would supposedly transpire when the damage is actually done to the west and would take place after a new joint contract had been ratified. Essentially, the west would have to vote for a new contract and then take it's CBA to court for the content of that contract. I guess it could happen.

OTOH, the east knows that if the 9th does not address the issue of fairness in the Nicolau award, and limits it's ruling only to the issue of ripeness, then we have only won a delaying action. We will all be right back to where we are today - barring any dramatic developments on the M&A front. For many in the east - delay is good. Significant attrition may very well resume before a new joint contract sees the light of day. It could happen.

OTOH, there may be another possibility. Lets call it Wye River II. Due to fatigue, financial and emotional cost, both sides realize that compromise may be better than this Mexican standoff. We sit down yet again, change the seniority language in our C&BL's, and accomplish what Nicolau failed to accomplish - craft a seniority list acceptable to both sides.

It could happen.

I don't think it matters that much what the 9th says. No matter what the ruling, it is clear that US Airways management will never agree to any seniority list other than the Nicolau list. If they did, they would be on the hook for hundreds of millions in damages. Therefore, the only real question is whether USAPA will ever decide to move on or will they still be making the same sub-bankruptcy wages for years to come. In order to break out, USAPA will have to accept the Nicolau list and try to negotiate a better contract. The best avenue to do that is to change political control of the union. Those in charge now are clearly not the ones to make those hard choices.