US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[AWE Dog]

If the West loses the ripeness issue. The $1.8 mil is gone. They have the option of starting the DFR all over again when it is ripe. Another $1.8 mil, and you maybe get your legal costs back for the second DFR, but I don't think any judge will help you recover costs for a non-ripe case. Thats only about $12k per pilot gone. Would USAPA have a case to recover costs that where incurred from a DFR that did not happen? Not ripe, NO DFR.

 

[LSS]

Vote on a new contract, not for. Common sense would say that if the West voted for a contract containing a DOH list it would take the wind out of the sails and make another suit useless - if effect West pilots (or a least a majority) agreed to a DOH integration by voting for the contract.



Who would negotiate for the West - USAPA?

I guess in theory USAPA could give West their own BPR, not bound by the USAPA officer's wishes or USAPA's C&B/L, which would appoint a West merger committee who would negotiate on behalf of the West. But what if negotiations couldn't reach a solution (again!!)? Back to an arbitrator agreeable to both sides?

I think, as unfortunate as it is, that this will have to play out in the courts. Once that's settled (possibly soon) a new contract will hopefully be ready to vote on sooner rather than later.

Jim

The bottom line is and will forever be... does anyone truly believe Doogie and Co would ever throw enough money and concessions (vacation, sick, deadhead time, etc., etc., etc...) at this pilot group for the majority of pilots to ratify it? Of course it would more than likely include the NIC, so why would anyone with 17 plus years of continuous time served agree to give up his "hard time" to others with far less time served, unless there were significant improvements in the contract? Knowing Doogie and Co... will never happen...IMHO!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Typical pilot-centric attitude. The airline is merged except for pilots and flight attendants. There is no way to parse the west or east at this point.

Tell that to Eastern when they spun off the Shuttle. Impossible, huh?

It was a shame that Delta was unable to purchase just the European operations of Pan Am. Oops. That actually happened, didn't it?

It can be done a lot simpler than you might think.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Republic is going to luv you guys.

Slotted, of course. Integrity matters, remember?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Who would negotiate for the West - USAPA?

I guess in theory USAPA could give West their own BPR, not bound by the USAPA officer's wishes or USAPA's C&B/L, which would appoint a West merger committee who would negotiate on behalf of the West. But what if negotiations couldn't reach a solution (again!!)? Back to an arbitrator agreeable to both sides?

I think, as unfortunate as it is, that this will have to play out in the courts. Once that's settled (possibly soon) a new contract will hopefully be ready to vote on sooner rather than later.

Jim

No more arbitrators. I envision Wye River II actually taking place at the Dead Moose Lodge on the north fork of the Anatuvuk River, Alaska. Food would be brought in by sled from the nearest Eskimo village. The two sides would remain there until word gets out after first thaw that an agreement has been reached.

 

[Metroyet]

If the West loses the ripeness issue. The $1.8 mil is gone. They have the option of starting the DFR all over again when it is ripe. Another $1.8 mil, and you maybe get your legal costs back for the second DFR, but I don't think any judge will help you recover costs for a non-ripe case. Thats only about $12k per pilot gone. Would USAPA have a case to recover costs that where incurred from a DFR that did not happen? Not ripe, NO DFR.

It won't cost anywhere NEAR another 1.8million. The work product is done and in the can...just waiting to be pulled out and used again if it ever comes to that. Of course there will be some additional expenses, but the vast majority of the billable hours are behind us. If you're hoping it's a shortage of cash that will deliver you DOH....how's that plan worked so far?

The west has money to burn to keep the straight jacket on your fake union. When the 9th quashes the last glimmer of hope for you guys I have a feeling straight jackets will become fashionable over there.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It won't cost anywhere NEAR another 1.8million.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the legal profession.

 

[Hate2fly]

It won't cost anywhere NEAR another 1.8million. The work product is done and in the can...just waiting to be pulled out and used again if it ever comes to that. Of course there will be some additional expenses, but the vast majority of the billable hours are behind us. If you're hoping it's a shortage of cash that will deliver you DOH....how's that plan worked so far?

The west has money to burn to keep the straight jacket on your fake union. When the 9th quashes the last glimmer of hope for you guys I have a feeling straight jackets will become fashionable over there.

Metroyet,

You and your legal boys still do not understand labor law in this country. The desert judge was told by Bringle that he didn't understand labor law and that the west attorneys needed to brush up also. The desert judge was not sleeping well during the desert trial. Do you remember any of this? You westies need to read the transcripts from the trial. The 9th is going to spank you big time because they will not allow some desert judge to rewrite labor law.

Premature adjudication by your crack legal team. I can't wait to see you guys on the crew vans or around the campus. You better get some more red lanyards.

Hate

 

[AWE Dog]

It won't cost anywhere NEAR another 1.8million. The work product is done and in the can...just waiting to be pulled out and used again if it ever comes to that. Of course there will be some additional expenses, but the vast majority of the billable hours are behind us. If you're hoping it's a shortage of cash that will deliver you DOH....how's that plan worked so far?

The west has money to burn to keep the straight jacket on your fake union. When the 9th quashes the last glimmer of hope for you guys I have a feeling straight jackets will become fashionable over there.

The DOH comment, it's been great. The West money to burn, LOL. Do you really think you will get another judge Wake? Might be a whole different trial.

 

[Metroyet]

The DOH comment, it's been great. The West money to burn, LOL. Do you really think you will get another judge Wake? Might be a whole different trial.

Any Judge in America would have ruled the same way. Find me a Judge that is willing to throw the sanctity of BINDING ARBITRATION out the window. Good Luck on that one. A new trial wouldn't worry any of us one bit. Only you guys think it's some kind of "win" to work under LOA 93 for 15 years PAST the amendable date. In the end, nothing changes. Nic. is here to stay, the company won't touch anything else.

 

[Hate2fly]

Any Judge in America would have ruled the same way. Find me a Judge that is willing to throw the sanctity of BINDING ARBITRATION out the window. Good Luck on that one. A new trial wouldn't worry any of us one bit. Only you guys think it's some kind of "win" to work under LOA 93 for 15 years PAST the amendable date. In the end, nothing changes. Nic. is here to stay, the company won't touch anything else.

Metroyet,

LOA 93 pay restoration is going to happen for us in the east. We are supremely confident!

2010 is going to be a great year in the east.

Hate

 

[flyinawa]

Metroyet,

LOA 93 pay restoration is going to happen for us in the east. We are supremely confident!

2010 is going to be a great year in the east.

Hate

Just like you were "Supremely Confident" before the Nic award came out? Supremely confident before Wake ruled? We can go on and on. One definition of Psychosis is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to be different.

 

[cubfan]

Metroyet,

LOA 93 pay restoration is going to happen for us in the east. We are supremely confident!

2010 is going to be a great year in the east.

Hate

We haven't won any thing yet, I've been disappointed too many times.

 

[Al Legheny]

We haven't won any thing yet, I've been disappointed too many times.

Here is an interesting tidbit from the Phoenix Court on February 9th.

The Court: Can one read any 9th circuit tea leave from the fact that your motion to stay the proceedings in this court is before the panel and they have elected not to rule on it. Because if one had thought they had a decision in your favor they would see the wisdom of just staying these proceedings. I MEAN, I WOULD SEE THE WISDOM IN STAYING THESE PROCEDINGS IF I THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO REVERSE THE JUDGEMENT.(page 8 line 9 @ 1458)

Let's see, a few days later Judge Wake does just that, issues a stay. Kinda makes you go Hmmmmmm?

 

[nycbusdriver]

One definition of Psychosis is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to be different.

Ever drive around the same block several times looking for a parking space? Is that psychotic? What about when you find one recently vacated?

Folks love to invoke that little (very) bit of "truthiness," but the fact is it doesn't make a lick of sense in the real world because conditions are always in flux. Except maybe in very tightly controlled laboratory conditions, it is impossible to do the same thing over and over again.