US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[ableoneable]

Well put sir. I couldn't agree more. I'd further note that, fully removed from merely pecuniary concerns...The day will NEVER come when I'll ever have to turn to any First Officer and say:

Since you are a widebody FO it's going to be very difficult to address the pilot to your right, but I know that all you east guys are captains in your own minds, regardless of which seat you occupy.

So...isn't it really OK for some youngster, who was bicycling to 4th grade classes when you started your professional flying, to magically now become "senior" to you!???"

We are back to the age argument now. "It does not matter that you were a captain coming into this merger you need to respect your elders and take your place behind our furloghees. Stealing is justified if the loot is taken from the young and given to the old." Thanks but we will pass.

It's an earnest issue of principles, and again NO!..I'll NEVER vote into existence ANYTHING that would implement the nic abomination...period.

You may not, but others certainly will.

 

[flypg]

Well put sir. I couldn't agree more. I'd further note that, fully removed from merely pecuniary concerns...The day will NEVER come when I'll ever have to turn to any First Officer and say: "Well...it WAS thirty pieces of silver after all!"..."So...isn't it really OK for some youngster, who was bicycling to 4th grade classes when you started your professional flying, to magically now become "senior" to you!???" It's an earnest issue of principles, and again NO!..I'll NEVER vote into existence ANYTHING that would implement the nic abomination...period.

EastUS and Capt Underpants and al !

Will you guys EVER let me buy you a few drinks ?

Please ?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I think that I am a reasonable, level headed individual. In my case the NIC represents a hit - but not a knockout as it does for many F/O's. If all the east pilots were in my situation, I think we could live with the NIC.

However, that is not the case. Moreover, I will not vote for the Kirby proposal. I will also not vote for that which I already had several years ago - pre bankruptcy - in the form of LOA84.

The best thing I can do at the present time is the same thing I have been trained, and experience has taught me to do - wind my watch, wait and see what happens at the 9th, the LOA93 grievance and the MDA lawsuit.

I acknowledge all the mistakes the east has made. We have often been our own worst enemy. Either actively or passively, we allowed ALPA's change to merger policy go unchallenged. We waited for the mother of all litmus tests to take place before we reacted.

To me, integrity means standing by your fellow airmen and refusing to submit to injustice - and doing so because it is right, even it it is illegal.

You did great until the last sentence, then you accepted a vector right back into what you had just deviated around.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Permanent Injunction...working just fine.

And the furloughs are going according to the Nic? I missed that.

If they're not, then it really isn't working "just fine" for the west, is it?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I can't find oscarjazz' post so I may as well put the above here. The posts on the USAirways forum far exceed those of any other airline. The posts by the Westies far exceed those of the East pilots.

Does BB count as a west pilot? I think he should. That alone should make their number of posts untouchable for the next decade.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Either and yes. My recollection is that a jury trial has already been requested, but I could be wrong about that.

Judge Wake could make the decision as to who the fact finder would be, judge or jury, in the equity phase (injunction), but per the 7th Amd of the US Constitution USAPA has a right to a jury trial for the damages. At least, that's my understanding. They'll get a jury trial, but to me it's irrelevant who the fact finder is: the judge, a jury, or little green men from Mars. Anyone listening to the evidence presented will make the causal connection between the willful breach and the harm suffered. It's a pretty straight forward issue.

 

[EastUS]

Since you are a widebody FO it's going to be very difficult to address the pilot to your right, but I know that all you east guys are captains in your own minds, regardless of which seat you occupy.

You may not, but others certainly will.

Not too waste conversation but merely correct = I do have a wider body than in much earlier years, time will take a toll on us ya' know? , but the FO bit's incorrect....as is is the west fantasy of the nic being made acceptable to the east. I can only suppose that the west finds it very necessary to fantasize that a mass sell-out of the FO ranks will occur by those in the left seat....I can only conclude that rank opportunism's the normal thought process out west, and that they would do such to personally benefit themselves if ever offerred the chance...Good Luck with that....

Over and Out.

Carry On.

 

[nycbusdriver]

One thing the west has going for us, not many people in this country are to sympathetic with bullies and their tactics.

What do mean?

George Bush and Dick Cheney got elected (sort of.)

TWICE!

America LOVES bullies!

 

[nic4us]

I think that I am a reasonable, level headed individual. In my case the NIC represents a hit - but not a knockout as it does for many F/O's. If all the east pilots were in my situation, I think we could live with the NIC.

However, that is not the case. Moreover, I will not vote for the Kirby proposal. I will also not vote for that which I already had several years ago - pre bankruptcy - in the form of LOA84.

The best thing I can do at the present time is the same thing I have been trained, and experience has taught me to do - wind my watch, wait and see what happens at the 9th, the LOA93 grievance and the MDA lawsuit.

I acknowledge all the mistakes the east has made. We have often been our own worst enemy. Either actively or passively, we allowed ALPA's change to merger policy go unchallenged. We waited for the mother of all litmus tests to take place before we reacted.

To me, integrity means standing by your fellow airmen and refusing to submit to injustice - and doing so because it is right, even it it is illegal.

Although I like your definition of integrity, let me offer mine.

To me, integrity means standing by myself and doing what is righteous, regardless of what others think or want me to do. If that righteous cause has others who agree with me and we can stand together, that certainly makes it easier.

When it comes to the seniority dispute, we are standing by our fellow airmen, against our fellow airmen. You are correct to say we are our own worst enemy. However, there is only one legal, legitimate way this can end, if we are to be combined.

 

[HPDriver]

...wait and see what happens at the 9th, the LOA93 grievance and the MDA lawsuit

So all of that goes against you, then what are you going to do?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What do mean?

George Bush and Dick Cheney got elected (sort of.)

TWICE!

America LOVES bullies!

Nah, America just doesn't like pompous liberals. Clinton did well, because he wasn't pompous. In fact he is rather affable, much like GWB. Gore and Kerry on the other hand, they are, well, pompous to the extreme.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Although I like your definition of integrity, let me offer mine.

To me, integrity means standing by myself and doing what is righteous, regardless of what others think or want me to do. If that righteous cause has others who agree with me and we can stand together, that certainly makes it easier.

When it comes to the seniority dispute, we are standing by our fellow airmen, against our fellow airmen. You are correct to say we are our own worst enemy. However, there is only one legal, legitimate way this can end, if we are to be combined.

You say potaytoe - I say potahtoe

 

[ableoneable]

What do mean?

George Bush and Dick Cheney got elected (sort of.)

TWICE!

America LOVES bullies!

He has a point here.

 

[nycbusdriver]

However, that is not the case. Moreover, I will not vote for the Kirby proposal. I will also not vote for that which I already had several years ago - pre bankruptcy - in the form of LOA84.

Let me respectfully refresh your memory.

LOA 84 is a POST-bankruptcy side letter. It preceded the second bankruptcy, but it was signed in December, 2002, which was 3 months after the Chapter 11 filing.

The big pay hit was the Restructuring Agreement, which preceded bankruptcy one by about two months. I believe the company told us that if we signed on to it, we could avoid bankruptcy. Nothing has changed. They still lie through their teeth with every word they utter say.

 

[nycbusdriver]

( note to self......concerning underpants identity........might be an ex-girlfriend )

Skidmarks, too?