US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Piedmont1984]

HP and BB

Thanks.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Assuming for a moment that the 9th rules against the east, and the arbitraitor rules in the company's favor over loa93 rate experation....

I would like to float an idea for a contract that might be palatable, inclusive of the nic.......

Lets get paid like every one else that is hourly.....Mtc, F/a's, agents etc.....

Here is my idea, lose the diferent pay for all the different equipment (nobody else gets paid differently for the type a/c their working, why should we)

A pilot should be paid based on....Drum roll please......Length of service...Tadahhhhhhh!

Imagine a pay rate rewarding the employee for their years of dedicated service, what a concept.

I propose a graduated rate throughout the spectrum of LOS, tiered say at 5yr increments, with maybe a little boost for the ancient (over 30yrs 3% extra per year)

If we based it on the kirby proposal (west rates plus a token raise) we could get an average pilot rate,(less benefits ) of say 150/160ish per anum

I m sure someone could run a computer on this a come up with a 5/10/15/20/25/30,31,32,33etc rate that would keep the average pilot compensation per anum in that 150/160ish model....

Voila!! Nic goes in place, company spends what offered, east pilots can save for retirement....

I would like to add that we could barter with things like vacation, rigs, etc. put a 10yr timer on this and the east is gone when its up...

Well, there is my idea, now fire at will, but please toss out a few ideas along with just the "No"s....Thx

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, at the end of the day every group took their cuts so there's no shortage of leopards at US. Which crawled away first doesn't really matter much in the big picture.

Jim

 

[700UW]

If push comes to shove, your group will cave you wont find a job paying six figures.

 

[N924PS]

Assuming for a moment that the 9th rules against the east, and the arbitraitor rules in the company's favor over loa93 rate experation....

I would like to float an idea for a contract that might be palatable, inclusive of the nic.......

Lets get paid like every one else that is hourly.....Mtc, F/a's, agents etc.....

Here is my idea, lose the diferent pay for all the different equipment (nobody else gets paid differently for the type a/c their working, why should we)

A pilot should be paid based on....Drum roll please......Length of service...Tadahhhhhhh!

Imagine a pay rate rewarding the employee for their years of dedicated service, what a concept.

I propose a graduated rate throughout the spectrum of LOS, tiered say at 5yr increments, with maybe a little boost for the ancient (over 30yrs 3% extra per year)

If we based it on the kirby proposal (west rates plus a token raise) we could get an average pilot rate,(less benefits ) of say 150/160ish per anum

I m sure someone could run a computer on this a come up with a 5/10/15/20/25/30,31,32,33etc rate that would keep the average pilot compensation per anum in that 150/160ish model....

Voila!! Nic goes in place, company spends what offered, east pilots can save for retirement....

I would like to add that we could barter with things like vacation, rigs, etc. put a 10yr timer on this and the east is gone when its up...

Well, there is my idea, now fire at will, but please toss out a few ideas along with just the "No"s....Thx

Thanks for thinking outside the box and at least suggesting something innovative.

If the 9th does rule against USAPA, I will encourage this approach to the BPR rather than spend more time and money pursuing the unattainable.

 

[Captain Underpants]

...in which case your problem is that you're going to lose any chance of getting a new contract voted in before about 2020.

NYC,

Winning Addington would be a worst case scenario for the West pilots....much worse than straight DOH. East new hires will be moving into the attrition vacated A330 F/O and A320 C/O positions by 2013-2015. Status quo raises of 3% per year indefinitely on top of whatever rate the LOA 84 arbitrator comes up with will eventually double LOA 93 pay rates while the West rates remain frozen.

There is no time limit to separate operations and the company and USAPA are prohibited by contract as affirmed by the Federal court (thanks to Addington!) from using any integrated seniority list without a ratified joint contract and subsequent pilot integration. Separate seniority lists are required to be used until the USAPA BPR and the MIGS determine a joint contract including contractual seniority provisions is fair and equitable and legally ratified by majority vote.

NYC is right about no chance for a new contract using NIC and with an Addington "victory" I doubt it would be possible prior to 2030+..... if the company can survive the inevitable retaliation from our abused employees and customers.

underpants

 

[aquagreen73s]

Winning Addington would be a worst case scenario for the West pilots....much worse than straight DOH. underpants

You are truly delusional if you think DOH was better for the West than winning in Federal Court.

You're not going to get the snapbacks.

You are going to be stuck on LOA 93 ad infinitum.

Enough will soon join with the West, and a majority will move forward. That's the reality.

 

[cleardirect]

NYC,

Winning Addington would be a worst case scenario for the West pilots....much worse than straight DOH. East new hires will be moving into the attrition vacated A330 F/O and A320 C/O positions by 2013-2015. Status quo raises of 3% per year indefinitely on top of whatever rate the LOA 84 arbitrator comes up with will eventually double LOA 93 pay rates while the West rates remain frozen.

There is no time limit to separate operations and the company and USAPA are prohibited by contract as affirmed by the Federal court (thanks to Addington!) from using any integrated seniority list without a ratified joint contract and subsequent pilot integration. Separate seniority lists are required to be used until the USAPA BPR and the MIGS determine a joint contract including contractual seniority provisions is fair and equitable and legally ratified by majority vote.

NYC is right about no chance for a new contract using NIC and with an Addington "victory" I doubt it would be possible prior to 2030+..... if the company can survive the inevitable retaliation from our abused employees and customers.

underpants

Riiiight! I see disappointment in your future.

 

[Barrister]

Better go read the RLA, US will impose a contract on you when your done with a 30 cooling off period once your in Section 6 Negotiations.

Dude, you really think Parker will IMPOSE anything on the East containing NIC. This thing is toxic to anything other than the Westies that gets near it. Parker is a smart man and he knows that it would be the beginning of the end for his airline. No strike just doing your job would bog down the East in a few hrs/days.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Flippin43]

What a difference a few weeks makes. Woody was one of your poster boys for insults. Now he's chosen sides backing DC against MC and TP and now you want to "hear" from him?



"Disadvantaged?" HOW?

By Jack Stephans testimony at the trial, this merger was expected to take 3-3.5 years to complete. We are past 4.5 years. The east pilot group is directly responsible for this. As a result of this delay by the east, West pilots have been downgraded and furloughed.



Don't remember reading that. How about an exact quote. I guess the 9th will determine rationality. But damages will be shared by all pilots, members or not, if any are established. Kind of like suing yourself, except your paying your own legal bills, too. Your paying ours as well in germane expenses.

Its in the transcripts from the Remedy portion of the trial. I don't need to look it up I heard it myself. I suggest you do some reading of the transcripts, it should fix you seham worship problem real quick. The side bar transcripts are especially entertaining.

Legal fees shared by all pilots sure. And whats more I don't mind paying an assesment to pay them either. Because then what I have sent them goes in the bank for your next infraction. And the best part is YOU PAY TOO! As far as Damages, we'll see, the group at fault is still easily defineable ie east/west. I'll wait and see if the Judge feels inclined to craft an award aimed at the east only or not. If I have to pay again, thats fine too. Because YOU PAY TOO. Some things are worth it.



RICO "risk" on both sides is being settled by rational people working toward a common goal. BPR resolution to do so. If you elect the Goat man in your upcoming election and all will be well. Your cast of characters running for the two vacancies reads like YOUR old leadership. And you guys complain about us?

Have you read the resolution?? What part was "rational"

Flip

 

[Metroyet]

NYC,

Winning Addington would be a worst case scenario for the West pilots...

underpants

"would" is generally considered to be speculative, an into the future, qualifier. No need here. The West actually DID win Addington. Past tense. It's over already. I don't know why news takes so long to hit you guys but facts remain none the less.

YCS"VNIIMN"UYSA.

 

[HPDriver]

I have a SCOTUS related question. Is my understanding correct that the SCOTUS would more likely listen to an appeal if it involved conflicting rulings from different courts, such as the District 9th versus the Circuit 9th - whereas it would decline to hear an appeal if both lower and upper courts supported each other's ruling?

Too lazy to do the research.

Cleary has already stated that this will not be going to SCOTUS.

The costs alone are prohibitive, even for USAPA.

 

[HPDriver]

...in which case your problem is that you're going to lose any chance of getting a new contract voted in before about 2020.

And you'll be under LOA93 the whole time.

 

[westcoastflyer]

You are truly delusional if you think DOH was better for the West than winning in Federal Court.

You're not going to get the snapbacks.

You are going to be stuck on LOA 93 ad infinitum.

Enough will soon join with the West, and a majority will move forward. That's the reality.

You are absolutely right. Once this ruling from the 9th Circuit is upheld; there will be a change of direction by many of the East pilots, as well as West pilots. There is a large number of pilots (Captains and F/O's) that are in their late 50's or early 60's. Don't you think most of them are tired of leaving 20 to 30K per year on the table, along with crappy work rules, vacation, etc., with no end in sight? If a decent contract is negotiated, which by law has to include the Nic, these guys will vote for it, to improve their lifestyle and pay for the few years they have remaining. These guy are the quiet ones that you don't see wasting their time and emotional energy fighting on web boards.

 

[hp_fa]

Cleary has already stated that this will not be going to SCOTUS.

I'll believe that when, and if, USAPA loses and the time to file a Writ of Certiorari tolls (expires).