US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Poug Darker]

Wrong - in fact the book value has increased in recent quarters.

>>Try to sell it!


Since the airline is losing money, it could be said that the income production of additional aircraft would be negative. With interest rates down since the securities were purchased, the interest of "that cash on hand" would most likely be less also.

>>With that logic, why is LCC in the airline biz at all? Or, more to the point, since LCC is not making money now, how small would it have to be to make money? Again the question begs itself: is LCC in the airline biz? If not, what biz is it in?

Apples and oranges - stock buybacks do nothing but increase the value of the remaining outstanding stock. As such, no income is produced.

>>You missed the point, the buyback did not increase the stock price, just wasted a valuable asset - just like buying worthless paper.

So you don't believe in putting excess cash into interest bearing accounts but put it under your mattress instead?

>>Yes, I do. But you can always get your money out of a savings account, not so with this paper.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The book value reflects the price these securities would fetch if they had to be sold, so your "just try to sell it" is meaningless - they could be sold if necessary. Unless US needs the cash, why sell them. They're generating income - probably more than they would if invested today and certainly more than if US has just kept the cash.

You've admitted you use interest bearing accounts - are you in the "investment business" or do you work for a living? No company keeps all it's cash in a non-interest bearing checking account - to do so would be foolish. Why forgo making money on the cash in excess of daily needs? I guess you're arguing that a company shouldn't use available assets, including excess cash, to generate income.

So the buy back didn't increase the stock price? Prove it by giving the stock price absent the buy back vs with the buy back? Without knowing both, you have no idea whether the buy back increased the stock price relative to what it would have been without the buy back or not. You're merely assuming that which fits your preconceived notions.

Let me ask you this - US buys an airplane knowing that in 5-10-15 years it will be worth less than today. Your logic suggests that US should never buy another airplane.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

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I can't find oscarjazz' post so I may as well put the above here. The posts on the USAirways forum far exceed those of any other airline. The posts by the Westies far exceed those of the East pilots.

What does that tell you? Fire when ready, Gridley!

Ready.

It tells me the pilots at other airlines are posting on the ALPA web board and other venues. Recently a few other venues opened for USAirways pilots and there was a short lived corresponding drop in the number of post here, however, since the hearing at the 9th, there has been an inordinately high level of posting on this thread.

I am not so sure your "posts by the Westies far exceed those of East pilots" statement is at all accurate, unless you are counting OAL pilots, retired pilots, customers and employees who support the West position, and lumping them all under the term "Westie", although they might be an east mechanic, a retired east pilot, an active east pilot, a Delta pilot, a customer or anyone else who was never an AWA employee, but posts supporting the side of Truth, Justice and the American way.

 

[snapthis]

The Nic award is a nonstarter.

Get lost.

I noticed those stickers that have appeared in Phoenix don't stick so well. You can find them in the same file as that DOH list.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The Nic award is a nonstarter.

Get lost.

Man, you guys must really mean business! h34r:

 

[Captain Underpants]

The Nicolau is a done deal everyone is going to have to understand that.

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be NO.

If I am under a court order to negotiate to sell my house and am required by permanent injunction to include my 2 daughters as slaves in the deal what do you think the chances are that a sales contract would be reached? My sales price would of course be all the money on Earth plus $1 reflecting my good faith negotiating judgement of fair value and legal right to only accept a fair price.

The cost to buy the East seniority by including Nic in a joint contract would be well over a billion bucks. Doug certainly won't pay it and West pilots couldn't afford it regardless of how bad they want it.

You tried to violate the contractual agreement by trying to get Nic implemented outside a joint contract through the Addington litigation and failed. Case closed. Nice try. The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

 

[Freighterguynow]

But reality is we are one company now. Everyone is going to have to understand that. The Nicolau is a done deal everyone is going to have to understand that. Once those two FACTS are accepted then we can work together and start making all of our lives better.

Translation: bow down before your America West Overlords.


Pass .....

 

[luvn737s]

No it doesn't. It means that you should have started out with a reasonable expectation in the beginning and abided by the award at the end.

Should the Pulled Pork Politburo decide it's in their best interests to delay the joint contract vote as a means of negating the Nic, Judge Wake could impose financial penalties on USAPA so severe that they would have to put out the contract with their full support or go broke and be in contempt.

USAPA cannot put out a T/A without supporting it wholeheartedly. Therefore, some other shadow entity (like USAPA when it was still the AAA ALPA) would have to mount a vote-NO movement. Once the company sees that USAPA will be forced to support a Nic-containing contract, I bet they'll step up the pace of negotiations, all other things being equal.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be NO.

If I am under a court order to negotiate to sell my house and am required by permanent injunction to include my 2 daughters as slaves in the deal what do you think the chances are that a sales contract would be reached? My sales price would of course be all the money on Earth plus $1 reflecting my good faith negotiating judgement of fair value and legal right to only accept a fair price.

The cost to buy the East seniority by including Nic in a joint contract would be well over a billion bucks. Doug certainly won't pay it and West pilots couldn't afford it regardless of how bad they want it.

You tried to violate the contractual agreement by trying to get Nic implemented outside a joint contract through the Addington litigation and failed. Case closed. Nice try. The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

Fair and equitable, that's what the Nic is. You tried to use your greater numbers to ram your idea of fair and equitable down our throats. One thing the west has going for us, not many people in this country are to sympathetic with bullies and their tactics.

 

[nic4us]

You tried to violate the contractual agreement by trying to get Nic implemented outside a joint contract through the Addington litigation and failed. Case closed. Nice try. The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

Now there is a different take on Addington.

However, Addington is far from a failure, and it is hardly "Case closed". Addington was bifrucated, with a damages trial on the horizon, and a guilty verdict on the record. The intent of Addington was not to violate the contractual agreement of the TA. The West sought to make the east stick to their end of the bargain, if that got Nic implemented because the east proved to be untrustworthy, all the better.

Addington will put pressure on usapa and the east pilots to honor that same agreement from which they wish to reneg. If the 9th rules in favor of usapa you get a small reprieve. If the 9th upholds Wake, we have their decision on the record to add in the damages trial.

You are correct about the seniority integration, if it ever occurs, it will be fair and equitable, and it will be the Nic.

 

[nic4us]

I have a question for the legal types, maybe hp-fa, or luvn73.

Is the damages trial a bench trial or a jury trial? and does either side have the right to ask for a jury?

Also, for anyone, has there been a reply to usapa's request for a change of venue to the D.C. district, or is that on hold waiting for a decision from the 9th?

 

[OTTER574]

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be NO.

If I am under a court order to negotiate to sell my house and am required by permanent injunction to include my 2 daughters as slaves in the deal what do you think the chances are that a sales contract would be reached? My sales price would of course be all the money on Earth plus $1 reflecting my good faith negotiating judgement of fair value and legal right to only accept a fair price.

The cost to buy the East seniority by including Nic in a joint contract would be well over a billion bucks. Doug certainly won't pay it and West pilots couldn't afford it regardless of how bad they want it.

You tried to violate the contractual agreement by trying to get Nic implemented outside a joint contract through the Addington litigation and failed. Case closed. Nice try. The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

answer==damages trial against usapa/lee seham for breaking federal law and harming usairways west pilots.......paying union assessments for those damages coming very soon 2u.

 

[luvn737s]

Not me, I'm intimidated by a legal pad! Aquagreen73s or HP-FA is your man!

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be

....snip

The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

We Westyz are sure shaking in our boots now. Wow, UP, you really know how to sock it to us.

I don't suppose the courts would have anything to say about your puffery would they?

Can't wait for your next outburst......maybe it will be following the 9th finding, or maybe it with be the LOA 93 arbitration. Say, if you win that one, will you refuse to take the money?

By the way, do you know what crow tastes like?

 

[flypg]

Fair and equitable, that's what the Nic is. You tried to use your greater numbers to ram your idea of fair and equitable down our throats. One thing the west has going for us, not many people in this country are to sympathetic with bullies and their tactics.

Captain Underpants ! where are you ? I (we) need more of you here. EastUs decided he had enough and I miss him(her) too.

Nic is fair and equitable..........Ok. The limo is on the way, the check is in the mail, OJ is not guilty, I love you, its only a cold sore, Ms SS is sane and reasonable (a west pilot), DP cares about you and customers, you guys get the drift....