US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Captain Underpants ! where are you ? I (we) need more of you here. EastUs decided he had enough and I miss him(her) too.

Nic is fair and equitable..........Ok. The limo is on the way, the check is in the mail, OJ is not guilty, I love you, its only a cold sore, Ms SS is sane and reasonable (a west pilot), DP cares about you and customers, you guys get the drift....

Your bad behavior is catching up to you. OJ got away with it, but you won't.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Fair and equitable, that's what the Nic is.

Sorry but you know that isn't true and anyone who truly believes that is either a liar or an idiot.

underpants

 

[hp_fa]

I have a question for the legal types, maybe hp-fa, or luvn73.

Is the damages trial a bench trial or a jury trial? and does either side have the right to ask for a jury?

Either and yes. My recollection is that a jury trial has already been requested, but I could be wrong about that.

As long as we are discussing this lets remember the pros and cons of a jury trial from each side's perspective.

Addington plaintiffs:

Pro: It can larger than what a judge might have awarded, stemming largely on how the jury likes or dislikes the show put on before them by respective counsel. In this case Seham has, in my observation, pissed off everyone he has argued the case in front of so there is no expectation that his whining ways will change any time soon. (Yes I used the word pissed. The word aggravated doesn't fully cover how bad it has been.)

Con: The jury can become confused, although one of the roles of the judge is to prevent that.

USAPA:

Pro: Hope you can confuse them.

Con: Seham is your counsel and I don't think he presents well at all. Bring Bringle back and not make him Seham's lap dog and your chances of success go up.

A trial to the court is quicker and less likely to cause an extreme verdict to either side. Of course it doesn't help to have already aggravated the judge in the case in how the case has been presented.

 

[OTTER574]

Sorry but you know that isn't true and anyone who truly believes that is either a liar or an idiot.

underpants

nope, you're wrong underpants.

I've a lot of people/pilot friends/neutral arbitrators/jurors/FEDERAL JUDGES/HONEST LEGAL COUNSEL to back up my statements.

 

[EastUS]

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be NO.

If I am under a court order to negotiate to sell my house and am required by permanent injunction to include my 2 daughters as slaves in the deal what do you think the chances are that a sales contract would be reached? My sales price would of course be all the money on Earth plus $1 reflecting my good faith negotiating judgement of fair value and legal right to only accept a fair price.

underpants

Well put sir. I couldn't agree more. I'd further note that, fully removed from merely pecuniary concerns...The day will NEVER come when I'll ever have to turn to any First Officer and say: "Well...it WAS thirty pieces of silver after all!"..."So...isn't it really OK for some youngster, who was bicycling to 4th grade classes when you started your professional flying, to magically now become "senior" to you!???" It's an earnest issue of principles, and again NO!..I'll NEVER vote into existence ANYTHING that would implement the nic abomination...period.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I think that I am a reasonable, level headed individual. In my case the NIC represents a hit - but not a knockout as it does for many F/O's. If all the east pilots were in my situation, I think we could live with the NIC.

However, that is not the case. Moreover, I will not vote for the Kirby proposal. I will also not vote for that which I already had several years ago - pre bankruptcy - in the form of LOA84.

The best thing I can do at the present time is the same thing I have been trained, and experience has taught me to do - wind my watch, wait and see what happens at the 9th, the LOA93 grievance and the MDA lawsuit.

I acknowledge all the mistakes the east has made. We have often been our own worst enemy. Either actively or passively, we allowed ALPA's change to merger policy go unchallenged. We waited for the mother of all litmus tests to take place before we reacted.

To me, integrity means standing by your fellow airmen and refusing to submit to injustice - and doing so because it is right, even it it is illegal.

 

[EastUS]

Captain Underpants ! where are you ? I (we) need more of you here. EastUs decided he had enough and I miss him(her) too.

Nic is fair and equitable..........Ok. The limo is on the way, the check is in the mail, OJ is not guilty, I love you, its only a cold sore, Ms SS is sane and reasonable (a west pilot), DP cares about you and customers, you guys get the drift....

Well put sir...somehow..."nic is fair and equitable" and "it's only a cold sore" work together quite well

Seriously; I must admire those of you who still post here, as I've given up on conversing with the west contingent. In fullest fairness; I've "met" a very, very few west folks here who, despite the light years distance in perspectives per the nic, seem good sorts. Given that though..as a group that feels that the most aged in both years and flight hours pilots of any airline need the youthfull west "wisdom" evidenced by such comments as "That the east pilots require far more education and correction than any other group of employees at any other airline"....Well...shucks...I just don't much see merit in wasting further conversation with them.

 

[EastUS]

To me, integrity means standing by your fellow airmen and refusing to submit to injustice - and doing so because it is right, even it it is illegal.

Indeed sir. It's perhaps worth noting that our very Nation was born from thoughts along those very same lines........

 

[nic4us]

Sorry but you know that isn't true and anyone who truly believes that is either a liar or an idiot.

underpants

You just called Parker, Lakefield, Nicolau, Gillen, Brucia, Wake and I am pretty sure on Bybee, "either a liar or an idiot".

Moreover, you just called me an "idiot". Oh well, had a big scalding reply, but will just drop it.

( note to self......concerning underpants identity........might be an ex-girlfriend )

 

[Elevation]

I have a question for the legal types, maybe hp-fa, or luvn73.

Is the damages trial a bench trial or a jury trial? and does either side have the right to ask for a jury?

Also, for anyone, has there been a reply to usapa's request for a change of venue to the D.C. district, or is that on hold waiting for a decision from the 9th?

"and that jury will be empaneled at the damages trial next Spring." -AOL 1/4/2010

 

[Flippin43]

Clear,

Let me be perfectly clear for you. There is no way ever in a million years that the East pilots will ever accept the Nic list into a joint contract. We don't care if Wake or the 9th circuit or the even the Pope would like us to accept Nic....the answer was, is and always will be NO.

If I am under a court order to negotiate to sell my house and am required by permanent injunction to include my 2 daughters as slaves in the deal what do you think the chances are that a sales contract would be reached? My sales price would of course be all the money on Earth plus $1 reflecting my good faith negotiating judgement of fair value and legal right to only accept a fair price.

The cost to buy the East seniority by including Nic in a joint contract would be well over a billion bucks. Doug certainly won't pay it and West pilots couldn't afford it regardless of how bad they want it.

You tried to violate the contractual agreement by trying to get Nic implemented outside a joint contract through the Addington litigation and failed. Case closed. Nice try. The seniority integration if it ever occurs will be fair and equitable.

underpants

Capt, U

Please speak to someone you will believe about this legal case. The Addington case was never about what you just claimed.

Keep in mind that "fair and equitable" is in the eye of the beholder. And the beholder we allowed to decide what was "fair and equitable" has decided and it is the Nicolau award.

Please try and keep up.


Flip

 

[HPDriver]

The Nic award is a nonstarter.

Get lost.

The injunction says it is a starter.

Get lost.

 

[HPDriver]

Sorry but you know that isn't true and anyone who truly believes that is either a liar or an idiot.

underpants

Sorry, but it IS true and anyone who truly believes that the Nic is a non-starter is either a liar, an idiot, or a complete moron.

 

[HPDriver]

Well...shucks...I just don't much see merit in wasting further conversation with them.

Of course not.

All you want to do is challenge us in dogfights.

Who else here has been challenged by him to a dogfight?

 

[ableoneable]

Who else here has been challenged by him to a dogfight?

Yo!

If memory serves it was (and probably still is) a $10,000 bet to prove his machismo.