US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[end_of_alpa]

"Truth"

Behold the US Pilots Labor Discussion thread: many years it's grown and grown, with thousands of posts from many a professional and educated man (and woman, presumably), many a learned and well-spoken man, many well-witted and long-lived man; verily, and they cry "TRUTH!", for it is truth, they believe, that sets their wills, truth, they believe must be clung to as do their fortunes not cling to it as well?

But lo, Fate is cruel, and most so to the wise and well-witted, and Fate laughs as they each hold their truth to their hearts all the while beseeching others to seek it, behold, Fate laughs as she has made each man's truth invisible to his neighbor, and his neighbor's truth invisible to him. And there was much cackling and seething, shrewd-toungedness and rudeness, they cursed one another and gnashed their teeth and pulled at one another's hair.

Ah, but who to divine the true truth? Who else but the sacred bringers of knowledge, those most valiant beasts slithering behind man and his machinations: "We shall hire attorneys and solicitors of the law!" these professional and educated men cry as they empty their gold upon the serpents at their feet, endearing them to rise, rise and fight, for - the TRUTH!

And it was so, and years did pass, and the serpents did grow fat and sluggish and drunk as they swam among the gold and silver pieces. Truth they seek! A truth that can never repair the wounds they've inflicted on one another, a truth that shall never refill their coffers nor fill their bellies, a truth that satisfies not but - that most foul in refined men: pride.

Behold these ragged men on that far off day of victory, poorer from their wisdom, embittered by their struggles, but glowing with triumph! "Pride! We have our Truth!" they exclaim and smile, though the truth tastes as ashes in their mouths.

And fate doth laugh, and the serpents doth laugh.

Cue the choir, close curtains.

And that, good sir, I sincerely thank you for!!

That sums it ALL up, here.

With that said, I bid you all "adieu"! To watch this pestilence and vile fester is beneath me and my valuable TIME!.

Pride goeth before a fall. We may certainly see that this year.

So I go in peace.

Bon chance!

 

[ableoneable]

As usual the posters who are east or pretend to have "no dog in the fight" yet carry the east's water (Utterly and Dog) don't attempt to refute any of BB's points. Instead they attack him for posting when he "has no dog in the fight."

The hypocrisy is rich and deep; "I am an interested observer and that is why I am posting but you are an interested observer so why are you posting?" This appears to be typical east logic.

but I don't much care about anything BBoy writes. I have no dog of my own in this fight but I know fair when I see it and the West is hardly what I consider to be fair. I simply wonder why BBoy has such a staunch interest when ALPA has been "disbarred" from the property and he is retired. He also posts on lots of the other forums on USAVIATION.com. One may wonder why and I am merely one who does. Just asking the question but not caring for an answer much.

"I have no interest in this and I am posting anyway but why is he posting when he has no direct interest? But I am not really interested in answers to my own questions."

Laughable.

As for the West posters, I see many of them as mostly rude and rather nasty at times. You do know that other people read this board other than the West and the East, no?

Really?

Learn to live with what you have, it's all you are going to get.

Hate

[AWE Dog]
If this place closes the doors I can draw my PBGC money. A lot of these west guys would have to crawl back to Mesa and Trans states and beg for a job back

I would say that you only see what you want to but that assumes that you are honest and not disingenuous with your posts. An assumption unsupported by your posts.

You probably have a very close association with an east pilot; husband, brother boyfriend etc. So your constant harping about how you have no "dog in the fight" is likely not the truth either.

I have no reason to be surprised. You are not the first east poster, whom I have encountered, who does not consider honesty to be a component of message board participation.

 

[Hate2fly]

You didn't answer my question.

Driver,

I was going to PM it to you so that you could become educated on the issue of LOA 93 pay restoration. Not a big deal!

Hate

 

[East Hole]

Just how big was the check that US wrote? Something like $0 perhaps? US, like HP, had no money for the merger - it was all outside investor money. Only ofter the merger was announced was that outside investor money made available. Like I said, no merger, no outside investor money, no US. Would HP have followed the same path? Quite possibly although I doubt anyone can say with certainty what effect the disappearance of US would have had on the rest of the industry or individual airlines in the industry. Remember that HP was making some money and had cash - neither applied to US.

Jim

Blah Blah Blah you guys crack me up. The truth is no matter what happen after 9-11 the future of this combine airline is US Airways east. Not PHX. So get over yourselves and quit living in a dream world of HP ruling the world. So keep in mind your future in this industry is directly related to what we brought to the merger not what you (the west) bring which is very little. Why do you think HP merged with US in the first place. Because HP's future was not good. The truth is tough at times.

 

[cubfan]

I have read them. actually I agree with you, the way I read it the step raises should start back up. However the company is going to claim that it is status quo until a new contract.

But that is a long way from the $40 per hour or so raise that some seem to think they are going to get. To me not worth the risk personally or to the union for all of the sick calls. It goes to grievance Feb 1 should have waited. I think the reaction from the company over all the cancellations is going to be swift and harsh.

Clear,

I also agree with you, they will claim status quo. I have always thought two things, the NIC will most likely survive, and the full loa snapback may have been a bit of a stretch simply because the wording was not quite clear and that usually means mgt. wins. I'm hoping for the best but not planning on it. (full loa snapback). I am planning on and fully expect at least step raises. All the cancellations are most likely not related to just sick calls. I for one wouldn't call in sick over a major holiday because I could screw someone else who had the day off. MGT. should on Monday morning be honest and ask themselves WHY? Could it be because moral is LOW due to their MGT. style. They won't because they are what their record says they are. :down:

 

[End of USAPA]

Clear,

I also agree with you, they will claim status quo. I have always thought two things, the NIC will most likely survive, and the full loa snapback may have been a bit of a stretch simply because the wording was not quite clear and that usually means mgt. wins. I'm hoping for the best but not planning on it. (full loa snapback). I am planning on and fully expect at least step raises. All the cancellations are most likely not related to just sick calls. I for one wouldn't call in sick over a major holiday because I could screw someone else who had the day off. MGT. should on Monday morning be honest and ask themselves WHY? Could it be because moral is LOW due to their MGT. style. They won't because they are what their record says they are. :down:

How many pilots do you know called in sick? What about those CHAOS stickers in the jetway? Was this all USAPA bluster??? Fact of fiction? Is that what you are saying? Are you knees a little weak? Hmmm. I think it was 100% management's fault (staffing). I can see the weakness in your eyes...

 

[Poug Darker]

Treat your employees well, and they will go the extra mile for you, for free.
Did anyone get a christmas card from their chief pilot/supervisor this year? Threats of termination for sick calls without a note do not count.
Oh, and cold turkey in the crew room on a holiday doesn't count either.
Let's hope management learns from 2009 and does not repeat..oh, why waste the bandwidth.

Cheers

 

[flypg]

Flypg,

You don't want to believe me fine, most east guys don't want to see the reality of this.

Which is, you all are not just fine with LOA 93 rates till whenever........His number was lower than what I want Nic or No Nic. Lower than even what usapa is asking for. Don't believe me, I don't care. But your usapa does and thats why we are approaching 2 years without even polling the Pilots. They don't want to know and don't want to create a paper trail. PBGC money is good for those gettin it, sure. But its a small number who are actually getting that and if you wave a bit more under their nose with just a few more years, you get the picture.

Your right, your reality is different.


Flip

Flip,

I have no reasons not to believe you. The top 5 or 600 got a reprieve in 07 for 5 years. Most of us here can draw the PBGC at 50 I think. The further you go down the SL the more dough would have to be offered to mitigate the NIC. I am sure there are some bonehead from 500 to 2800 who would take a few temporary dollars to permanently take NIC and get off LOA 93. You are absolutely right, nobody likes LOA 93. It is an abomination, however with many hundreds of retirements coming for most it means getting off LOA 93 by advancement. We may already have 400 or so over 60.
They would have in essence to double the pay rate for each position in order to have a chance to pass a contract with NIC. You and I know thats not going to happen.

I do agree with you here, there are a few wh**es but you have to negotiate the price. You may think of it as a reality or difference thereof but really its the perspective from the vantage point thats different.

 

[Black Swan]

Had an east Bus Capt (86 hire) on the Jumpseat the other night. I told him of the claim that the east will just never vote for a contract and will happily stay on LOA 93 rates and they have all the Senior guys behind them.

His reply.........

"your kidding right"


Seems that there are holes in your plan.


Flip

I had Doug Parker in mine in the same fairlyland skies you fly in. He said we are all getting gold rolexes in the mail this week!!!

 

[oscarjazz]

My advice to the West people here that want to move forward. Look at the bottom of the thread and see how many Guests or Anonymous readers are here. The back and forth with the usual East guys here just degenerates into mud slinging. Instead, when you post think about the others that are reading this and say what you think you need to say to them.

When you talk about US Air dying or the endless rehash of the seniority arbitration arguments, you probably turn people off. Instead, I would concentrate on how you can move forward as a group and the advantages of that. Why should an East pilot reject this path of conflict and why would they benefit from a joint effort forward? Talk about that and don't worry about debating crew room lawyers over their legal theories.

 

[flypg]

I've just got to laugh at some of the stuff that comes from the East posters. Quoting Parker when it suits them but ignoring his words when they don't fit the argument. Talking about absolute longevity rather that what longevity is worth. Saying relative seniority will be the downfall of the industry but not wanting to give the shuttle pilots even that. Etc. At times it almost becomes sad - all excuses for wanting to make up for their lack of career advancement by pushing down the West pilots.

Jim

So, you were a Piedmont guy. But, you did not give the Empire guys neither DOH nor relative position. The Shuttle guys the same. But you wanted relative position with Usair and America West ?

 

[Richard]

Here's a final reminder folks,

Comment all you want on the POSTS, but DO NOT attack the posters.

Personal remarks will be removed, and the poster suspended without comment.

If it keeps up we will close the pilots thread for a few days to cool things off......

Remember- NOTHING anyone says here will affect the final outcome one bit....

 

[Tiger 1050]

How many pilots do you know called in sick? What about those CHAOS stickers in the jetway? Was this all USAPA bluster??? Fact of fiction? Is that what you are saying? Are you knees a little weak? Hmmm. I think it was 100% management's fault (staffing). I can see the weakness in your eyes...

Uh Oh! JJ is nervous! He's been pretty concerned with covering the tracks after the "WE MEAN BUSINESS" post...

 

[hp_fa]

You probably have a very close association with an east pilot; husband, brother boyfriend etc. So your constant harping about how you have no "dog in the fight" is likely not the truth either.

Link.

 

[Black Swan]

Uh Oh! JJ is nervous! He's been pretty concerned with covering the tracks after the "WE MEAN BUSINESS" post...

Somebody decide who JJ is. I was told it was me, then it is someone else.