US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[nycbusdriver]

Going great, I'm most likely younger than you, in upper management at another company.

Sanjay hired you to run his Circle K, huh?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I still can't figure out how a group that continues to lose every court case and has a rapidly eroding support base feels like they are in control of anything.

Bottom line: The courts are irrelevant. We control the votes on a new contract. That's all that is necessary, and all that counts.

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

 

[luvthe9]

Bottom line: The courts are irrelevant. We control the votes on a new contract. That's all that is necessary, and all that counts.

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

Quite simple, it's called denial.

 

[flypg]

Exactly what I think! At the very worst, if the arbiTRAITOR screws us again we will at least be getting 3% pay raises for the next decade. ANother reason to VNIIMN!!!

Of course they dont want to pay ! However, it seems simple contract law. They are several versions that I have heard. IMO, the intent matters. LOA 93 gives MGMT five years of frozen rates plus an additional 18% reduction with a start and an end date. They seem to have flip-flop on their position once already. " We didnt mean it that way". Well, that's too bad, you wrote it that way. Now, they want to argue something else. We all know an arbitrator can and will interpret things their own way. See the IAM change of control or the recent AA minimum pilot positions. Or Nicolau......Lastly the rumours of TP not certain of the outcome, remember, she is not a lawyer.

LOA 93 is pretty clear. They must pay LOA 84 rates or at the very least should unless JG and his merry band of thieves find another magic bullet and a willing arbitrator.

 

[cleardirect]

Be careful now. They may be under LOA 93 wages now but not for long. And oh, yes, they saved this company a sh**t pot load of money.

And please don't forget the West f/a's are stuck in hell. No thanks to you. You guys out west are soooo self involved and crow at the top of your lungs about how much better YOUR contract is........yet your flying partners are eating TV dinners if anything. <_<

Well guess what.....I've looked at your contract and it's pretty sorry in my opinion. Your rigs suck. Ours are better.( even after going through 2 bankruptcies.) And your f/a's may as well not have any rigs at all. Not to mention they get dragged through hell and high water. :angry:

So, please talk to the hand......

I believe that the LOA 93 wages are going to continue until we get a new contract. Besides, so what how much money the pilots saved the company. I for one am sick of hearing about it. It they are not at their current wages where would you or any of them be working today? Not at US Airways.

I agree the west F/A’s are getting the short end of the stick on this deal. Because we can not get to a contract the F/A’s are delayed. But unfortunately because of AFA policy they are going to be screwed by DOH when it happens and so far they are stuck at lower wages than the east F/A’s.

Quick question. The east pilots whine and complain that the west did not support them in their pay parity. Why have the east F/A’s not demanded that the west F/A’s be brought up to your level?

Now please explain how this is in anyway the west pilots fault.

The east pilots and west pilots entered negotiations/mediation/arbitration. The east pilots insisted on DOH, it is their right. But after the arbitrator told them they were not going to get it but chose to remain at LOS. That is the east pilots fault. When the a list was released it was the east pilots that refused to continue joint negotiation. Delaying our contract. Not the west pilots.

It was the east pilots that formed USAPA to get out of the agreed to arbitration. It is the east pilots and the east controlled NAC that opened up all the contract sections delaying out contract even more. It is the east pilots that are screaming there will never be a contract.

The west pilots have lived up to our agreement we are ready to move on and get a contract. The east is the majority, the east is in control of this mess. It is the east’s fault. Now please tell me how our F/A’s not getting a contract are the west pilots fault?

P.S. To all of the other employees here at disaster airways. Since the east pilots think they have the right to disrupt everyone’s lives. I would like to apologize for the east pilots, for the delays and cancelled flights and all of the extra work this has caused. It is unfair to the gate agents, res agents and the passengers that you were forced to make up for a temper tantrum by the east pilots. That is extra work you should not have had to do.

 

[Flippin43]

Bottom line: The courts are irrelevant. We control the votes on a new contract. That's all that is necessary, and all that counts.

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

Had an east Bus Capt (86 hire) on the Jumpseat the other night. I told him of the claim that the east will just never vote for a contract and will happily stay on LOA 93 rates and they have all the Senior guys behind them.

His reply.........

"your kidding right"


Seems that there are holes in your plan.


Flip

 

[Hate2fly]

Had an east Bus Capt (86 hire) on the Jumpseat the other night. I told him of the claim that the east will just never vote for a contract and will happily stay on LOA 93 rates and they have all the Senior guys behind them.

His reply.........

"your kidding right"


Seems that there are holes in your plan.


Flip

BS meter is pegged again! Key word "Jumpseat"

Keep dreaming!

Hate

 

[Metroyet]

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

All you have to do is PROVE IT. I think you prolific Eastie typists are terrified of letting the Pilots decide anything related to the Nic. ie a contract vote, a SCOTUS vote.


I'll wager that the very first TA vote passes. If the "most democratic" BPR ever lets that happen.

 

[cleardirect]

Bottom line: The courts are irrelevant. We control the votes on a new contract. That's all that is necessary, and all that counts.

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

We do have it figured out. YES we understand you have a vote YES so do I. It is a single vote nothing more. And by the sounds of it that is the only thing that you have.

No one but the individual controls the votes so first I would say that is overstated that “we control the votes“. Unless you are admitting some sort of fraud or intimidation of the voters.

Bottom line: The courts are not irrelevant. So that tells me though that you are all beginning to understand that the Ninth is going to rule in our favor. Otherwise you would have told us how important the appeal is. So you are down to a single vote.

What you and most of the east pilots are looking at is a very narrow view. The court is just one piece of this entire deal. There are many events that can change. We could have a merger very soon which makes your vote irrelevant. The company could declare bankruptcy and change the rules of the game. The judge could get sick of the delays and change the rules of the game. After the massive east sick out the company could get an injunction or fines against USAPA. That will change the game. After this little temper tantrum Doug could finally have enough of the east and start placing airplanes on the west. He could transfer the rest of the 190’s to the west. Furlough east pilots recall west pilots.

Still want to vote no?

Have you figured it out yet?

 

[flypg]

Had an east Bus Capt (86 hire) on the Jumpseat the other night. I told him of the claim that the east will just never vote for a contract and will happily stay on LOA 93 rates and they have all the Senior guys behind them.

His reply.........

"your kidding right"


Seems that there are holes in your plan.


Flip

Flip,

An east 86 never furloughed willing to let 900 or so Nic pilots ahead of him ?
Ok. You got me there.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Bottom line: The courts are irrelevant. We control the votes on a new contract. That's all that is necessary, and all that counts.

Why can't the west pilots get that figured out?

Because THEY CAN'T!

Go HERE to find out WHY!

http://www.keepusflying.com/Pilots.html

Here is where Ferguson sums it up:

"Now, any company has the right to do whatever it deems necessary to maintain a profit. But, that same company has the obligation to do so while abiding by the contractual agreements with its labor groups, and this is where we have a real problem.

US Airways has been blatantly ignoring their contractual agreements with this pilot group."

WHAT CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENTS???

You mean the "final and binding" one??? Where is that?

Oh, that's right, we have to have a VOTE!!! (If and unless there is no union, then you have an Onion.)

EVEN WAKE SAID THAT!!

Let me explain this to you: NO COURT CAN MAKE ME VOTE FOR A CBA! Until that happens, SUE USAPA INTO OBLIVION! I DON'T CARE. YOU WEST PILOTS DO NOT DESERVE A UNION. What you have now (or have LEFT is an "Onion" and anyway you slice it it still makes you "cry and whine" likes children.

I am an East pilot. I wouldn't waste my days ON OR OFF going to Las Vegas. NO EAST PILOT SHOULD WASTE THEIR TIME! SHUT IT DOWN! There is NOTHING you can do to stop it because you keep "defecating where you eat!"

After having watched all the committee members put in the hard work they do trying to cover your sorry ------ so you can have SOME protection from the company's transgressions all you can do is complain about "you agreed" and "final and binding", how USAPA isn't a "real" union....blah blah blah. You GET what you give.

It's time for the East pilots to move to employment at will. The "onion" will take care of itself. Because the company HAS US DIVIDED! Don't believe me???

Read their letter to the NMB attached to this post. IT SUMS IT UP!!!

 

[Hate2fly]

P.S. To all of the other employees here at disaster airways. Since the east pilots think they have the right to disrupt everyone’s lives. I would like to apologize for the east pilots, for the delays and cancelled flights and all of the extra work this has caused. It is unfair to the gate agents, res agents and the passengers that you were forced to make up for a temper tantrum by the east pilots. That is extra work you should not have had to do.

Clear,

This statement shows us in the east how naive you are. If you think the east pilots are causing the cancellations you are misinformed. Pilots do not control how many pilots are on the roster. This is poor operational planning by your Team Tempe.

Maybe you can call the judge............

Hate

 

[end_of_alpa]

We do have it figured out. YES we understand you have a vote YES so do I. It is a single vote nothing more. And by the sounds of it that is the only thing that you have.

No one but the individual controls the votes so first I would say that is overstated that “we control the votes“. Unless you are admitting some sort of fraud or intimidation of the voters.

Bottom line: The courts are not irrelevant. So that tells me though that you are all beginning to understand that the Ninth is going to rule in our favor. Otherwise you would have told us how important the appeal is. So you are down to a single vote.

What you and most of the east pilots are looking at is a very narrow view. The court is just one piece of this entire deal. There are many events that can change. We could have a merger very soon which makes your vote irrelevant. The company could declare bankruptcy and change the rules of the game. The judge could get sick of the delays and change the rules of the game. After the massive east sick out the company could get an injunction or fines against USAPA. That will change the game. After this little temper tantrum Doug could finally have enough of the east and start placing airplanes on the west. He could transfer the rest of the 190’s to the west. Furlough east pilots recall west pilots.

Still want to vote no?

Have you figured it out yet?

Now your're getting it.

Let me say this from one East pilot NEVER BEEN FURLOUGHED:

I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES!

 

[Flippin43]

Flip,

An east 86 never furloughed willing to let 900 or so Nic pilots ahead of him ?
Ok. You got me there.

He didn't say he liked it, He said he was one of the few that believed binding is binding. He was ok with dumping Alpa and a shot at changing the Nicolau award. But that hasn't really worked out very well. So now its time for money.

NYC says this is BS. He and the others on here seem to call BS on anything they don't seem to like. But truly they know that Senior guys will vote for money. Always have and always will. usapa knows this as well and for that reason there hasn't been a vote on a contract. It just may pass!! they knew this since the summer of 07'. Wilson Polling of east pilots told them this.

It's not BS but if you need to look at it that way to reconcile reality, be my guest.


Flip

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

This statement shows us in the east how naive you are. If you think the east pilots are causing the cancellations you are misinformed. Pilots do not control how many pilots are on the roster. This is poor operational planning by your Team Tempe.

Maybe you can call the judge............

Hate

No reason for me to go to the judge. I believe the company may take care of that on Monday.

This just in:

Over 100 cancelled east flights by mid afternoon today. WE MEAN BUSINESS!!!

WOW. When will east get their deserved raise? Contractually it is owed to us.
In black and white

Well this is what End of USAPA had to say. So what is it? Is it the east pilots demanding your raise or is it poor management that finally fell apart? Would you guys like to PM each other and get your story straight? I will wait.

Amazing how the operation was going along OK until Jan 1 and all of a sudden the wheels fall off but only on the east side of the operation. What could have happened? Oh that’s right a count down clock on the union web site and stickers that said 01-01-10 Cash or Chaos.

Nope you are right that is managements fault. Hate 2 fly, hate to tell you your story does not hold water. Hope you all have good doctors because you sure don’t have a good union. Everyone does have an outside job to support themselves while they are waiting for USAPA to get your job back right.

Good luck enjoy your time at home. I guess this Nicolau stuff will not matter to you anymore.