US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[luvn737s]

I still can't figure out how a group that continues to lose every court case and has a rapidly eroding support base feels like they are in control of anything.

I can give you a time for Nic implementation: 1/100th of a second after either USAPA or USairways declares BK. That quick enough for ya? This company knows how to capitalize on labor opportunities, and they will not dally around with bipartisan efforts with USAPA. USAPA has burned all it's bridges, so it will no longer be taken seriously by the company. The company will instantly abrogate labor contracts to pull the pilot groups together.

So if you delay, you get Nic. If you avoid, you get Nic. If you disrupt, you get Nic. If you put out a T/A, you get Nic (very likely).

Tell me again how you hold the west with an iron grip?

 

[AWE Dog]

If this place closes the doors I can draw my PBGC money. A lot of these west guys would have to crawl back to Mesa and Trans states and beg for a job back. Stapled to the Bottom. OMG, That just wouldn't be right.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

We will hold you guys right where you are in your position out west. We will do this for another 10 plus years..........you will be begging for DOH by the time we finish with you.

Remember we control this issue with our vote.........not some judge in the desert.

Hate

But wait. I thought that all of your attrition was going to kick in and the east was going to move off the list in no time. Why am I going to have to wait 10 years we should have the majority much faster if the attrition was real.

So it is going to be 10 years before we get Nicolau. OK When a merger comes in 6 months and the east is the minority how is that going to work out for you?

By we do you mean you and the mouse in your pocket? I think that we collection is getting smaller by the day as dollars slip away. When the hammer of a federal injunction falls on USAPA, when the wrath of the company spits out 10-20 rogue pilots as an example that 10 years is going to get very short.

BTW 10 more years means no pay raise for you either. Enjoy LOA93.

 

[Black Swan]

Can you give the the date that DOH USAPA promised becomes the seniority list for the new US Airways?

Can you give me a date for when the new bargaining agent gets us a new contract?

We don't want a joint contract. We don't need the DOH seniority list. Come on Clear! Do you really think we want to combine with you? Here is what we want- you guys to either stay where you are over in PHX, LAS, wherever you want. Just stay there. Open as many bases as you want- we will cheer you all the way. Just stay away. We don't want any combination, integration , anything. We are not going to sign anything with you, it is that simple. If it has the NIC, it is DOA. We know you can't make it happen without us. If you could, you would. Enjoy yourselves, just stay away. We are never going to give you that joint T/A. The bottom line is this- you guys need that deal, so let me know when it happens. You can't and we know it. Let it die.

 

[hp_fa]

We don't want a joint contract.

Yeah, Judge Wake figured that out from Seham and his group of merry men.

 

[luvthe9]

I still can't figure out how a group that continues to lose every court case and has a rapidly eroding support base feels like they are in control of anything.

I can give you a time for Nic implementation: 1/100th of a second after either USAPA or USairways declares BK. That quick enough for ya? This company knows how to capitalize on labor opportunities, and they will not dally around with bipartisan efforts with USAPA. USAPA has burned all it's bridges, so it will no longer be taken seriously by the company. The company will instantly abrogate labor contracts to pull the pilot groups together.

So if you delay, you get Nic. If you avoid, you get Nic. If you disrupt, you get Nic. If you put out a T/A, you get Nic (very likely).

Tell me again how you hold the west with an iron grip?

OK you can have Nic now.

 

[cleardirect]

There are 35,000 give or take employees in case you're counting.

The CEO is DOUG PARKER and in the end he is the one ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the enterprise placed in his hands by the Shareholders.

Leadership comes from the top not the pilots union

Now there is a true statement. This pilots association USAPA has show no leadership at all.

 

[cactusboy53]

The funny thing is, that in an Agency Shop, you get to pay too!

I've got no problem with that. I'm a member in good standing, have been since late Spring. If Judge Wake orders USAPA to pony up 1.8 MILLION dollars in legal fees, ALL US Airways pilots (members AND objector/challengers) will likely have to pay. That could be around $400 each. Failure to pay?? You get FIRED. It's for a good cause, and will put me near double GOLD.

If the damages portion of the trial is won AND it goes further to class action (I would say quite likely), USAPA could see a penalty of tens of millions. Now think about it. I can see why all US Airways pilots would be held accountable for the 1.8 million in legal fees. Can you see what judge would make the west pilots pay damages made possible ONLY by east actions??

Now that is a "funny thing"..........

 

[cleardirect]

We don't want a joint contract. We don't need the DOH seniority list. Come on Clear! Do you really think we want to combine with you? Here is what we want- you guys to either stay where you are over in PHX, LAS, wherever you want. Just stay there. Open as many bases as you want- we will cheer you all the way. Just stay away. We don't want any combination, integration , anything. We are not going to sign anything with you, it is that simple. If it has the NIC, it is DOA. We know you can't make it happen without us. If you could, you would. Enjoy yourselves, just stay away. We are never going to give you that joint T/A. The bottom line is this- you guys need that deal, so let me know when it happens. You can't and we know it. Let it die.

Guess what? I don’t care what you want or don’t want. Doug Parker does not care what you want or don’t want. The shareholders don’t care what you want or don’t want. This is not your company, you or the east pilots are not in charge. The sooner you figure that out the better.

This merger did not take place so Parker could run two separate companies. Eventually he will put them together. We are not going to stay where we are. Throw all of the tantrums you want the deal is done and the freight train is headed your way. Get off the tracks or get run over.

BTW that is the most desperate post yet. Could reality be seeping in?

 

[Black Swan]

Guess what? I don’t care what you want or don’t want. Doug Parker does not care what you want or don’t want. The shareholders don’t care what you want or don’t want. This is not your company, you or the east pilots are not in charge. The sooner you figure that out the better.

This merger did not take place so Parker could run two separate companies. Eventually he will put them together. We are not going to stay where we are. Throw all of the tantrums you want the deal is done and the freight train is headed your way. Get off the tracks or get run over.

BTW that is the most desperate post yet. Could reality be seeping in?

The only reality seeping anywhere is in your pants. Trains, Planes, Doug, Tantrums....... Clear- this has got to start to be really embarassing. If you can make it happen, then do it!

 

[Black Swan]

Ah, resorting to Hitler....

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2]

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads, wiki talk pages, and social networking sites.


Seriously, are you for real? Or just someone posting to yank chains? If so, you are brilliant.
Godwin's Law

H-P, you are seriously wierding me out! Not 2 minutes go by and you have this really strange law floating out here! I have seen a lot of strange things here, but this one takes it!

 

[luvthe9]

Guess what? I don’t care what you want or don’t want. Doug Parker does not care what you want or don’t want. The shareholders don’t care what you want or don’t want. This is not your company, you or the east pilots are not in charge. The sooner you figure that out the better.

This merger did not take place so Parker could run two separate companies. Eventually he will put them together. We are not going to stay where we are. Throw all of the tantrums you want the deal is done and the freight train is headed your way. Get off the tracks or get run over.

BTW that is the most desperate post yet. Could reality be seeping in?

Now that's a "tantrum" I might recommend a margarita or two. Bottom line is, saddle up boys your along for the ride.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

H-P, you are seriously wierding me out! Not 2 minutes go by and you have this really strange law floating out here! I have seen a lot of strange things here, but this one takes it!

If you don't know Godwin's law, you aren't very internet forum wary.

Its pretty well known. Sorry you got PWNED.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Who reneged? Who wussed out and formed a spite union, not Doug, not the West....

Who failed to provide the Leadership required for cooler heads to prevail?

If US had a real leader then it would have never come to this. If Doug Parker had exercised leadership instead of management by spreadsheet it's entirely possible that no one would have ever heard of USAPA. However since Doug "It's not a career, it's a job" Parker doesn't care about his employees he did nothing. He could have reached out to the pilots and possibly ended the war before it started.

The prevailing trip over a dollar to save a dime mentality rears its ugly head time and again in Tempe and in this particular case the money saved by more or less doing nothing could end up being a very small fraction of the total cost associated with this debacle. If that's the case then who indeed is at fault?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Who failed to provide the Leadership required for cooler heads to prevail?

If US had a real leader then it would have never come to this. If Doug Parker had exercised leadership instead of management by spreadsheet it's entirely possible that no one would have ever heard of USAPA. However since Doug "It's not a career, it's a job" Parker doesn't care about his employees he did nothing. He could have reached out to the pilots and possibly ended the war before it started.

The prevailing trip over a dollar to save a dime mentality rears its ugly head time and again in Tempe and in this particular case the money saved by more or less doing nothing could end up being a very small fraction of the total cost associated with this debacle. If that's the case then who indeed is at fault?

3 sides agreed to binding arbitration, agreed to live with whatever came out.

One side wussed out and created a spite union. This isn't about Doug, sorry, reserve your Doug hate for another issue.

Do I have to constantly point you back to the arbitration? Seems so.