US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[cleardirect]

Well, you relish bringing up certain financial tenants of our reality. I just thought I would share the reality that you also deal with since you brought up the subject. You see financial health is not measured solely by W-2. Prices one paid for real estate and their subsequent appreciation or decline certainly constitute ones' financial reality, and drive decisions going forward. If said real estate purchaser subsequently finds oneself with a seriously underperforming asset, he/she might be experiencing apprehension with regards to imminent satisfaction and realization of contractual agreements resulting in enhanced W-2.

The value of my real estate is irrelevant at this time. I have no plans on selling so what it is worth today does not matter. But either way my house is worth more than I owe or paid for it.

Now if you would like to stay on point of the discussion and not wonder into unrelated subject that would be helpful.

 

[Black Swan]

Mr. Swan,

Never signed, what could you possibly mean by that? Both sides had an agreement to use the results of the Arbitration. That was agreed to and signed for in the TA by your representatives and ours, Not Alpa National but YOUR elected fellow pilots. Your fellow pilots representing YOU went to Arbitration, what resulted is the fruits of their action (or inaction) Alpa was not at the Arbitration hearings. I went there and didn't see them anywhere only your fellow East pilots. It was the "bargin" often spoken of. This is not a new concept. The Nicolau list became the LCC list in Dec 2007 when Parker wrote us all a letter accepting it. This is not a porous idea, it is the truth. If it is not, then why is there currently a Federal Injuction prohibiting usapa from changing the "NICOLAU" list. It because its the LIST. This is not some porous idea. Its law. The TA prohibits LCC from implimenting "THE LIST". Should a BK occur, and things go away in BK, I'm sure you know about how that works. If the TA goes in BK then you will instantly realize the Nicolau list as the restriction of implimentation will be gone.

You are right Parker could ask the Judge to implement the list. But at this point its a business decision to keep 2/3rds of the pilot payroll on bargin basement rate for as long as they are willing. Your pay will stay there until you decide to change it. CONTRACT! Snapback, Snapback etc. Good luck. If your were to win that, BK is not long behind, (see first paragraph, last line)

You are correct Seniority is negotiable. However if you propose to advance the majority at the expense of the minority in doing so and you are found liable by a jury of violating your DFR that usapa assumed from Alpa, then when the Judge issues an Injunction barring usapa from negotiating seniority, it is no longer negotiable. What part of this us unclear?

LETTER OF AGREEMENT
between
AMERICA WEST HOLDINGS CORPORATION, AMERICA WEST AIRLINES, INC., US AIRWAYS
GROUP, INC., and US AIRWAYS, INC.
and the
PILOTS
in the service of
AMERICA WEST, INC. AND US AIRWAYS, INC.
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
______________________________________________________________________
__
TRANSITION AGREEMENT
______________________________________________________________________
__


If the TA keeps Parker from using the list then it is also the TA that binds you to the list. You don't get to pick which ones you will honor.


Flip

Then make it happen Flip! I guarantee the sun goes down tomorrow and your little fantasy doesn't become reality. Make it happen if you can! You can't. You know it, we all know it. If you can do it, then do it! So far you have not made it happen. Give me a time and a date when it becomes reality!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Number One: I'm a 9 year Chairman's Preferred. NOT a US Airways Employee, frankly you can't afford me.

Number Two: Since you've made character an issue why don't we dredge up the multiple DUI convictions of a certain airline CEO?

Number Three: I have never been in a union a day in my life. For me they offer no value, however for some they make sense.

Number Four: If DUI Doug had the opportunity to bust a union, trust me his sense of fair play would not be a factor. He'd renege on a deal if he thought he could get away with it in less time than it takes him to pop the top on a can of Miller.

Number Five: All the East pilot group did was apply the lessons taught by Jerry Glass and DUI Doug for their benefit. The east pilots effectively prevent any merger activity thereby thwarting Doug Parker's rum soaked visions of being an airline mogul. I finally had a bit of an ephiphany. Win or Lose the resulting turmoil will ensure that there is no labor peace for untold years. All of this under the Leadership of DUI Doug and his merry band of incompetents. Because of his actions, US Airways is IMO more at risk of C7 than any other domestivc airline.

Do you feel better now? Or is there still some hyperbole left?

And in the end, the east still reneged on an agreement, one that real men and women would honor. Don't make an agreement if you can't stick to it.

FWIW, I'm not nor have ever been in a union, I find them to be outdated, corrupt and unnecessary. I didn't make your personal character an issue, just the east that doesn't live up to agreements. And, really, haven't you all been flogging the DUI long enough? It seems so petty.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Number One: I'm a 9 year Chairman's Preferred. NOT a US Airways Employee, frankly you can't afford me.

Number Two: Since you've made character an issue why don't we dredge up the multiple DUI convictions of a certain airline CEO?

Number Three: I have never been in a union a day in my life. For me they offer no value, however for some they make sense.

Number Four: If DUI Doug had the opportunity to bust a union, trust me his sense of fair play would not be a factor. He'd renege on a deal if he thought he could get away with it in less time than it takes him to pop the top on a can of Miller.

Number Five: All the East pilot group did was apply the lessons taught by Jerry Glass and DUI Doug for their benefit. The east pilots effectively prevent any merger activity thereby thwarting Doug Parker's rum soaked visions of being an airline mogul. I finally had a bit of an ephiphany. Win or Lose the resulting turmoil will ensure that there is no labor peace for untold years. All of this under the Leadership of DUI Doug and his merry band of incompetents. Because of his actions, US Airways is IMO more at risk of C7 than any other domestivc airline.

Very typical eastie response: when you lose the argument, deflect the topic towards something else.

Bottom line: your words have condoned tyranny and thievery. No matter what the context, that type of behavior is irrepresentable and is subject to punishment.

We cannot enforce morality, but we can enforce the law. Remember, Doug was punished for his transgressions.

 

[Black Swan]

The value of my real estate is irrelevant at this time. I have no plans on selling so what it is worth today does not matter. But either way my house is worth more than I owe or paid for it.

Now if you would like to stay on point of the discussion and not wonder into unrelated subject that would be helpful.

Lets' stay on point, because if this little funhouse shuts down or your Sub Prime Hub expires in the new year, it will be VERY relevant, more relevant than LOA 93. Have your fun with LOA 93 but the deal is this- your little laugh at the expense of us may reap some serious repercussions in the New Year.....I am dead on subject. If we get a chance to spin you off into ether, you bet it will become relevent. I don't believe you, I don't believe HP either.You all are seriously underwater. You would have to have bought in the early 80's to escape this one. We know it, Parker knows it. You guys know if we get the outside, and I realize outside chance of any LOA victory, it is GAME over. You will NEVER, NEVER get a contract. Over here? We maybe took 3-5% at max. Most of will still make $$$$ You guys are for the most part in the kill zone. You need to come over here, and we aren't going to go for it. It is that simple. You don't get the contract. Live with what you have, because it is ALL you ever get!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Do you feel better now? Or is there still some hyperbole left?

And in the end, the east still reneged on an agreement, one that real men and women would honor. Don't make an agreement if you can't stick to it.

Jeez I had to look up "hyperbole" Do you use big words because you're lacking in size elsewhere?

I always feel good! Why don't you just wake up and take note that I'm NOT defending their actions, merely pointing out they aren't unique and specific to the East Pilot group.

We live in a world where Honesty, Credibility, Trust & Integrity take a back seat to profil and/or personal gain and no one need look any farther then DUI Doug's Compensation plan and how it was changed. He renegotiated his contract why can't a workgroup do the same?

 

[cynic]

Jeez I had to look up "hyperbole" Do you use big words because you're lacking in size elsewhere?

Do you feel the need to insult everyone else due to your own shortcomings?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Do you feel the need to insult everyone else due to your own shortcomings?

Nah! I bought a nice German sports car instead.

I just don't let Doug Parker apologists off the hook.

He's managed to turn 2 perfectly fine airlines in one large airborne abortion.

His action/inaction on the pilot issues may well cost 35,000 hard working employees their jobs and people who apologize for the jackarse in charge WILL be challenged early and often

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Jeez I had to look up "hyperbole" Do you use big words because you're lacking in size elsewhere?

I always feel good! Why don't you just wake up and take note that I'm NOT defending their actions, merely pointing out they aren't unique and specific to the East Pilot group.

We live in a world where Honesty, Credibility, Trust & Integrity take a back seat to profil and/or personal gain and no one need look any farther then DUI Doug's Compensation plan and how it was changed. He renegotiated his contract why can't a workgroup do the same?

I figured you knew big words because you were such a big chairmans club member who USAirways couldn't afford. You must be out of arguments, now that you are in cheap shot territory, thanks for validating my argument.

So, its OK not to live up to an agreement, because "evil managment" might not live up to an agreement and Doug has a DUI?

Here is another big word(s) for you: Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Black Swan]

Bottom line is this. THis is FLAT OUT WAR. All the hollow threats are just that. Tell legal arguments to George S. Patton. He would laugh and run you over with a Sherman!. This is the bottom line- these guys can go on for days and nights about their integrity, their honor their whatever. It is all SMOKE. Ask them to give you a date and time when the deal is theirs, and they will look at you like deer in the headlights! They cannot, will not, ever, be able to tell you, because they have still not figured out that the smokin' deal they got was an ALPA smokin deal, and ALPA is DOA! New bargaining agent, seniority negotiated, deal NEVER implemented! They can cry day and night, night and day, the reality is they missed the train of a lifetime. ALPA was DOA when it came time to sign on the dotted line, and guess what? It never got signed. Ask them again why it sits on Dougies desk, yet never becomes reality? They know. It can't become law because of all their cries and whimpers, Doug has to sign with the ELECTED bargaining agent! It isn't ALPA is it! Ask them! Ask them! H-P Driver, LUVN One of you PLEASE, tell me when the magic day comes when Doug signs the deal! Tell them when you see them, because they just don't get it! ALPA had to sign the deal, they didn't, therefore you don't have the deal. GAME OVER! All the BS you reads is just that. REMEMBER THE BOTTOM LINE- THEY DON'T have the power they claim they have! Had they had it, it would have happened!!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

He's managed to turn 2 perfectly fine airlines in one large airborne abortion.

USAirways was perfectly fine? Yeah, sure, for about 5 or 6 days till Chapter 7.

Thanks for the laff.

 

[Black Swan]

I figured you knew big words because you were such a big chairmans club member who USAirways couldn't afford. You must be out of arguments, now that you are in cheap shot territory, thanks for validating my argument.

So, its OK not to live up to an agreement, because "evil managment" might not live up to an agreement and Doug has a DUI?

Here is another big word(s) for you: Cognitive Dissonance.

I don't give a crap for you or your agreement. I want you to give me a date and time and place when all this smoke becomes reality. If you could have done it, you would. You can't and everybody knows it!

 

[cleardirect]

Bottom line is this. THis is FLAT OUT WAR. All the hollow threats are just that. Tell legal arguments to George S. Patton. He would laugh and run you over with a Sherman!. This is the bottom line- these guys can go on for days and nights about their integrity, their honor their whatever. It is all SMOKE. Ask them to give you a date and time when the deal is theirs, and they will look at you like deer in the headlights! They cannot, will not, ever, be able to tell you, because they have still not figured out that the smokin' deal they got was an ALPA smokin deal, and ALPA is DOA! New bargaining agent, seniority negotiated, deal NEVER implemented! They can cry day and night, night and day, the reality is they missed the train of a lifetime. ALPA was DOA when it came time to sign on the dotted line, and guess what? It never got signed. Ask them again why it sits on Dougies desk, yet never becomes reality? They know. It can't become law because of all their cries and whimpers, Doug has to sign with the ELECTED bargaining agent! It isn't ALPA is it! Ask them! Ask them! H-P Driver, LUVN One of you PLEASE, tell me when the magic day comes when Doug signs the deal! Tell them when you see them, because they just don't get it! ALPA had to sign the deal, they didn't, therefore you don't have the deal. GAME OVER! All the BS you reads is just that. REMEMBER THE BOTTOM LINE- THEY DON'T have the power they claim they have! Had they had it, it would have happened!!

Swan.

Can you give the the date that DOH USAPA promised becomes the seniority list for the new US Airways?

Can you give me a date for when the new bargaining agent gets us a new contract?

So what is it?

"This is FLAT OUT WAR"
or

"GAME OVER"

Would you mind sticking with one theory per post? It is hard enough when they span multiple rants.

USAPA claimed they had the power to impose a DOH list on the west. Where is it?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I don't give a crap for you or your agreement. I want you to give me a date and time and place when all this smoke becomes reality. If you could have done it, you would. You can't and everybody knows it!

I don't care if you don't give a crap. Its law, and when 9th circus laughs you out of court, you will live by it. Hopefully you will overcome your anger and channel it into something more productive.

 

[SparrowHawk]

USAirways was perfectly fine? Yeah, sure, for about 5 or 6 days till Chapter 7.

Thanks for the laff.

You must be Doug's personal valet

He's a putz and most of the industryknows it.