US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Ever ponder what will happen if your assesment is wrong? I don't think it is wrong as I was never impressed with Lee Seham. I'm still trying a case of consequence that he has won and trust me I've looked.

Reneging on deals is nothing new in modern business, so to me that annoying little fact matters little IMO.

Frankly I can't vision of the future that doesn't suck. This whole thing to me is a giant Lose-Lose proposition all the way around. Now the amusing part to me is that El Cheapo Doug Parker and his strategy with the pilots has the potential to cause US Airways to cease to exist.

I can think of two or three nightmare scenarios which lead to C7

So you are admitting that the east pilot group, in fact, reneged on their binding arbitration agreement? And you further feel that this is OK simply because "modern business" does it?

That action is pure travesty - and your acceptance of it reeks of moral bankruptcy

 

[luvthe9]

So why are we on the East working past age 60 for substandard wages if we really don't need the money?

We must really love our jobs to give USAirways half of our lives at this age.

I think you missed the point, most could care less if this place folds, we hope it does not but if so, oh well, it will be because of America West management running this place into the ground. everyone knows that, employess and passengers alike!!!

 

[traderjake]

I think you missed the point, most could care less if this place folds, we hope it does not but if so, oh well, it will be because of America West management running this place into the ground. everyone knows that, employess and passengers alike!!!

No, the point is you're trying to imply that if this place folds the West will be hurt more therefore they need to give in to the East's demands.

It's ridiculous for you to say that most could care less if this place folds.

 

[traderjake]

Because they can collect the PBGC money at the same time. $$$

So we're so greedy that at our age we sell half our lives to USAir for money we don't need?

My point is that if this place folds the East will be hurt.

 

[Flippin43]

LOA 93 has no effect on you does it? Nor LOA84. You were never involved with us. I would not expect it to have impact on you. Nic- an ALPA deal THAT WAS NEVER SIGNED on in a TA or contract. We dumped ALPA before it was implemented as you are well aware. There is a massively porous idea you are floating and you know it. We SIGNED and RATIFIED that last LOA. Get it? Did we sign the joint T/A with you? NO. Try again. USAPA is an entirely new deal. Seniority is going to be negotiated in that one. Key phrase- the Nic is on Parkers desk. You and I know that if, if he could impose it, he would. There is a big reason he can't impose it. New bargaining agent. It is simple- he can't. You are in huge denial. It is your lottery ticket that can't be cashed with out us.

Mr. Swan,

Never signed, what could you possibly mean by that? Both sides had an agreement to use the results of the Arbitration. That was agreed to and signed for in the TA by your representatives and ours, Not Alpa National but YOUR elected fellow pilots. Your fellow pilots representing YOU went to Arbitration, what resulted is the fruits of their action (or inaction) Alpa was not at the Arbitration hearings. I went there and didn't see them anywhere only your fellow East pilots. It was the "bargin" often spoken of. This is not a new concept. The Nicolau list became the LCC list in Dec 2007 when Parker wrote us all a letter accepting it. This is not a porous idea, it is the truth. If it is not, then why is there currently a Federal Injuction prohibiting usapa from changing the "NICOLAU" list. It because its the LIST. This is not some porous idea. Its law. The TA prohibits LCC from implimenting "THE LIST". Should a BK occur, and things go away in BK, I'm sure you know about how that works. If the TA goes in BK then you will instantly realize the Nicolau list as the restriction of implimentation will be gone.

You are right Parker could ask the Judge to implement the list. But at this point its a business decision to keep 2/3rds of the pilot payroll on bargin basement rate for as long as they are willing. Your pay will stay there until you decide to change it. CONTRACT! Snapback, Snapback etc. Good luck. If your were to win that, BK is not long behind, (see first paragraph, last line)

You are correct Seniority is negotiable. However if you propose to advance the majority at the expense of the minority in doing so and you are found liable by a jury of violating your DFR that usapa assumed from Alpa, then when the Judge issues an Injunction barring usapa from negotiating seniority, it is no longer negotiable. What part of this us unclear?

LETTER OF AGREEMENT
between
AMERICA WEST HOLDINGS CORPORATION, AMERICA WEST AIRLINES, INC., US AIRWAYS
GROUP, INC., and US AIRWAYS, INC.
and the
PILOTS
in the service of
AMERICA WEST, INC. AND US AIRWAYS, INC.
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
______________________________________________________________________
__
TRANSITION AGREEMENT
______________________________________________________________________
__


If the TA keeps Parker from using the list then it is also the TA that binds you to the list. You don't get to pick which ones you will honor.


Flip

 

[Metroyet]

I think you missed the point, most could care less if this place folds, we hope it does not but if so, oh well, it will be because of America West management running this place into the ground.

You mean America West management is simply going to put you back where they found you? Believe me, nobody west of the Mississippi is happy Dougweiser decided to scrape you off the ground.

 

[End of USAPA]

You mean America West management is simply going to put you back where they found you? Believe me, nobody west of the Mississippi is happy Dougweiser decided to scrape you off the ground.

If Doug hadn't scraped us off the ground you would already be out of a job- THOSE ARE DOUG"S WORDS!!!

 

[Flippin43]

If Doug hadn't scraped us off the ground you would already be out of a job- THOSE ARE DOUG"S WORDS!!!

Where can I see "Doug's words" that say this.

All I ever heard him say was that we "might have been in trouble in 6 months" Don't remember any mention of being out of a Job. Besides with AAA closed up then the whole industry would have recieved a nice shot in the market share arm. Remember how Doug is always saying the industry needs less seats. You guys were about to help everyone out with that.

JJ because you say so isn't good enough.

Flip

 

[SparrowHawk]

So you are admitting that the east pilot group, in fact, reneged on their binding arbitration agreement? And you further feel that this is OK simply because "modern business" does it?

That action is pure travesty - and your acceptance of it reeks of moral bankruptcy

spare me the righteous indignation!

Regardless of our personal moral code we live in a business world that is lubricated by treachery of every kind. From reneging on contracts, to union busting, corruption and bribery in the highest levels of corporations and governments.

For pilot group that was bludgeoned during two post 9/11 concessions and 2 subsequent bankruptcies I think they learned the lessons of recent history having done battle with Jerry Glass, who was/is a master at corporate treachery and said to themselves "Hey what do we have to lose" and went to war. Good Idea? We will know soon enough now won't we.

 

[luvthe9]

Where can I see "Doug's words" that say this.

All I ever heard him say was that we "might have been in trouble in 6 months" Don't remember any mention of being out of a Job. Besides with AAA closed up then the whole industry would have recieved a nice shot in the market share arm. Remember how Doug is always saying the industry needs less seats. You guys were about to help everyone out with that.

JJ because you say so isn't good enough.

Flip

How about 'PROJECT ZANZIBAR" that ring a bell.

 

[luvthe9]

You mean America West management is simply going to put you back where they found you? Believe me, nobody west of the Mississippi is happy Dougweiser decided to scrape you off the ground.

Well lets work together to un-merge this mess, everyone out east would love to get rid of the west, why is it the west does not feel that way?. I'm sure you have great faith in you management team and they would lead you to become the world's premier airline. I'd take my chances with someone else.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Reneging on deals is nothing new in modern business, so to me that annoying little fact matters little IMO.

Great, I hope US renegs on your union and fires you.

Or is it just when it happens to you that you are concerned about agreements?

Would you make an agreement with your spouse or kids and reneg? Or is it just situational ethics with you guys?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Great, I hope US renegs on your union and fires you.

Or is it just when it happens to you that you are concerned about agreements?

Would you make an agreement with your spouse or kids and reneg? Or is it just situational ethics with you guys?

Number One: I'm a 9 year Chairman's Preferred. NOT a US Airways Employee, frankly you can't afford me.

Number Two: Since you've made character an issue why don't we dredge up the multiple DUI convictions of a certain airline CEO?

Number Three: I have never been in a union a day in my life. For me they offer no value, however for some they make sense.

Number Four: If DUI Doug had the opportunity to bust a union, trust me his sense of fair play would not be a factor. He'd renege on a deal if he thought he could get away with it in less time than it takes him to pop the top on a can of Miller.

Number Five: All the East pilot group did was apply the lessons taught by Jerry Glass and DUI Doug for their benefit. The east pilots effectively prevent any merger activity thereby thwarting Doug Parker's rum soaked visions of being an airline mogul. I finally had a bit of an ephiphany. Win or Lose the resulting turmoil will ensure that there is no labor peace for untold years. All of this under the Leadership of DUI Doug and his merry band of incompetents. Because of his actions, US Airways is IMO more at risk of C7 than any other domestivc airline.

 

[hp_fa]

spare me the righteous indignation!

Regardless of our personal moral code we live in a business world that is lubricated by treachery of every kind. From reneging on contracts, to union busting, corruption and bribery in the highest levels of corporations and governments.

If that is an admission of fact on behalf of the voting majority of USAPA I will stop trying to awaken folks that the happenings that occurred after the Nicolau full and binding arbitration have been shameful and an example of the ends justify the means.

So, do you represent the majority of voting USAPA members?

 

[SparrowHawk]

If that is an admission of fact on behalf of the voting majority of USAPA I will stop trying to awaken folks that the happenings that occurred after the Nicolau full and binding arbitration have been shameful and an example of the ends justify the means.

So, do you represent the majority of voting USAPA members?

See my above post