US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Bear96]

Well, customers understand who is in the right and it is not the west.

Hmmm. I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I strongly disagree.

I am an LCC customer who has been following this debacle for a few years now, and I understand completely what has been going on.

From my point of view, the West is overwhelmingly - if not totally - "in the right," as you put it.

 

[cleardirect]

You will not get your snap backs there is no more to say about that.


Well not sure why you are so arrogant to believe that the East pilots will not receive the 18% return of pay that they were promised. I am supportive of them receiving what they are due. No different than when we were in bankruptcy and management going to court to get the millions in bonus's that they had been promised. Management was awarded their bonus's while the rest of the East Coast Employee groups lost their pensions.

No arrogance, just the ability to read contracts.

Who promised you an 18% pay raise? USAPA! A date next to a line that says pay freeze does not constitute snap back. USAPA has made a very low percentage promise. When the snap back does not happen who will be to blame? The arbitrator for ruling against USAPA, management for winning the grievance or USAPA for misreading and over promising a pay raise? Let me guess it could never be USAPA’s fault.

There is a difference between going to court and operating under contract law and using the grievance process under RLA.

 

[cleardirect]

Great post Hate! Love it! Our lawyer tried to tell this to their lawyer but they didn't listen! Now look what that got them. Oh my gosh, they have such a super problem on their hands.

I have looked through all of the court filings for the DFR case and you know what? Not one place in there could I find Jeff Fruends name as having anything to do with the DFR.

So after two years you guys can bring up what our merger attorney might have said taken out of context. But it has nothing to do with where we are today. Before Wye River it was the Nicolau list. After Wye River it is the Nicolau list. After a DFR law suit it is the Nicolau list. When the Ninth Circuit rules in our favor it will still be the Nicolau list.

The next contract will include the Nicolau list. The only problem we have are uniformed or delusional people that do not understand reality.

Besides our attorney told your attorney during the trial that you were going to lose. I guess you should have listened then. Now you have a super problem of your own. A federal injunction, a damages trial coming, poor leadership and a possible counter suit for the RICO.

2010 is going to be rough on the eastern sea board.

 

[Black Swan]

Mr. Swan,

Think about what your saying. According to your logic the Company can adopt your same attitude with your snapback. "snapback" was done under Alpa, so it must be null and void.

So if your snapback is not "null and void"

Nicolau is very much alive and well without Alpa. The Company is only restricted by the TA against its USE, but it is very much the Company accepted legally generated list. It really is that simple. If you have real proof otherwise please share it with us.



Flip

LOA 93 has no effect on you does it? Nor LOA84. You were never involved with us. I would not expect it to have impact on you. Nic- an ALPA deal THAT WAS NEVER SIGNED on in a TA or contract. We dumped ALPA before it was implemented as you are well aware. There is a massively porous idea you are floating and you know it. We SIGNED and RATIFIED that last LOA. Get it? Did we sign the joint T/A with you? NO. Try again. USAPA is an entirely new deal. Seniority is going to be negotiated in that one. Key phrase- the Nic is on Parkers desk. You and I know that if, if he could impose it, he would. There is a big reason he can't impose it. New bargaining agent. It is simple- he can't. You are in huge denial. It is your lottery ticket that can't be cashed with out us.

 

[End of USAPA]

Hmmm. I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I strongly disagree.

I am an LCC customer who has been following this debacle for a few years now, and I understand completely what has been going on.

From my point of view, the West is overwhelmingly - if not totally - "in the right," as you put it.

Sparrowhawk, a true USAir customer, said it best: (paraphrasing) Tempe is the problem, AWA pilots came from there and chose to work there- a difference exists between the two pilot groups.
You can have you're opinion though. IT doesn't make much sense.

 

[Metroyet]

Great post Hate! Love it! Our lawyer tried to tell this to their lawyer but they didn't listen! Now look what that got them.

Honestly. This is too much of a laugh for one afternoon. What did we get for NOT listening to YOUR Lawyer? Uhhh...hmmm....lemme think......OH YEAH!!! A DFR Conviction!!! When the 9th is done stuffing the DFR permanently in Sehams body cavities, we'll have the affirmation as well.

You guys have lost every. single. step of the way. I realize disinformation is a tactic but to be believed, it must be from the same planet.

 

[Megasnoop]

Referencing Wilder's blog is the same as getting stock tips from a blogger on Motley Fool. I wouldn't pay a squirt of piss for what he had to say on his blog. Mere pandering for a little bit of that dues money that Cleary has no problem spending.

And as for Freund, you can keep taking what he said out of context. It doesn't matter. The law is on our side and the Appellate Court will only serve to push those fence-sitters on the east toward a new contract which includes Nic.

Congrats too on your lump sum check. Getting a portion of your own money back must make you feel great. With what you saved Parker being on LOA 93, that $70M is a small drop in the bucket. And looking at the timer on the USAPA website, it looks like you're continuing to save him even more money.

Enjoying paying those credit card bills off with your own cash!!!

Drop in the bucket? You guys were saying we'd never get it. $6,400 and change after Obama and Ed Rendell took their cuts. That's the second "small drop in the bucket" we got back. The stock options paid better. Drop here, drop there, soon it all adds up. Never sure why you want to attack the fortune of others to get what their owed. Strange envy you got going.

I seem to remember the USAPA had to run that election TWICE because of the labor law violations in the first. Such a democratic union.

It was USAPA's own appeals board that decided to run the election again on Goat Man's legitimate complaint. And yes, the Goat videos were very funny, crude, but funny. The NMB places high premium on a union's ability to police itself, which happened in this case, BEFORE the Goat complained to the NMB. So goat man files a complaint, the appeals board agrees with his complaint and reruns the election. Then Goat man files an NMB complaint. I got that sequence right? That's what the documents show, anyway.

DOH is DOA in arbitration.

We'll get the answer to that down the road, maybe with the 9th ruling, maybe not. Constantly repeating it dont make it so. A seven-year difference on the DAL/NWA list, buried in the middle of their entire list, is still not a 15yr difference at the bottom of our 2 lists. I hope we've cleared up the reason for the DAL 1979 listers being where they were. They got TWAed before the TWA guys got TWAed. But on a fragmentation/asset fire sale, you just hope you have a job. On that TWA thing, your former merger committee member didn't waste any time going back to AMR on his 1st recall. I can't blame him. He'll be way ahead of his AWA class when AMR picks up the pieces. At TWA, he went from CO to furlough to AWA at a time when UAL, CAL, who knows who else was hiring. So maybe the old AWA wasn't exactly a 1st choice.

 

[Black Swan]

Honestly. This is too much of a laugh for one afternoon. What did we get for NOT listening to YOUR Lawyer? Uhhh...hmmm....lemme think......OH YEAH!!! A DFR Conviction!!! When the 9th is done stuffing the DFR permanently in Sehams body cavities, we'll have the affirmation as well.

You guys have lost every. single. step of the way. I realize disinformation is a tactic but to be believed, it must be from the same planet.

Lost everything? Some SMALL issues. Some big ones out there. The biggest and most absolute equalizer in all of this is going to be the end game. The T/A the company NEVER wants, nor wants to pay for. We all know a contract is far, far away. But the biggest weapon an East pilot has is his VOTE. You can float any and all T/A's you want. If we don't like what is in it, it goes down in flames. That simple. You know it, we absolutely know it.

 

[End of USAPA]

We all know a contract is far, far away. But the biggest weapon an East pilot has is his VOTE. You can float any and all T/A's you want. If we don't like what is in it, it goes down in flames. That simple.

And that is our plan b. You see west friends, you can't win this. You will never see Nicolau. You should have negotiated. You're greed got you to where we are.

 

[Bear96]

Sparrowhawk, a true USAir customer, said it best: (paraphrasing) Tempe is the problem, AWA pilots came from there and chose to work there- a difference exists between the two pilot groups.
You can have you're opinion though. IT doesn't make much sense.

Let me get this straight. So now "Tempe" (meaning, I presume, LCC management) is the root of the problem with the East v. West pilot spat?

Talk about not making much sense.

But I understand you want to blame whomever you can so as to deflect attention away from whom is really at fault.

 

[HPDriver]

And that is our plan b. You see west friends, you can't win this. You will never see Nicolau. You should have negotiated. You're greed got you to where we are.

We did negotiate. In fact, we had 7 year fences on the table. Your MEC wanted nothing less than DOH and took the process to med/arb.

Its your greed that has gotten you into your perpetually egregious situations.

How does getting back only a small fraction of the money you gave the company sit with you?

 

[Black Swan]

Let me get this straight. So now "Tempe" (meaning, I presume, LCC management) is the root of the problem with the East v. West pilot spat?

Talk about not making much sense.

But I understand you want to blame whomever you can so as to deflect attention away from whom is really at fault.

This is the most blatent" pseudo passenger " ruse I have seen yet! Typical west mantra-no hope, blame, blah blah blah.....

 

[Black Swan]

We did negotiate. In fact, we had 7 year fences on the table. Your MEC wanted nothing less than DOH and took the process to med/arb.

Its your greed that has gotten you into your perpetually egregious situations.

How does getting back only a small fraction of the money you gave the company sit with you?

It sits about as well as a small uptick in your caved in housing market in Sub Prime HQ. Better than nothing.......

 

[HPDriver]

It sits about as well as a small uptick in your caved in housing market in Sub Prime HQ. Better than nothing.......

Wow, you've resorted to using our housing market as your fall-back argument.

Weak.

Very weak.

 

[Bear96]

This is the most blatent" pseudo passenger " ruse I have seen yet! Typical west mantra-no hope, blame, blah blah blah.....

?

I am having trouble deciphering your spin (for example, WTF is a "pseudo-passenger ruse"?), so I have no idea what you mean.

I am just an LCC customer with no dog in this fight (and whose home airport is PHL, for whatever that is worth - certainly I have no motivation to spout the "typical west mantra-no hope, blame, blah blah blah," whatever that is / means) telling you my thoughts on the issue.