US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/27- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[AWE Dog]

No, it has everything to do with a sense of entitlement and clawing to recover a lousy career choice.

Now that's funny. A America West pilot saying that somebody else made a lousy career choice. Cleared you made my day.

 

[oscarjazz]

Thanks for the insight, goneflyin. Correct me if Im wrong on any of this. Pan Am didnt hire between 1970 and 1985. They did merge with National Airlines in 1980, thus the 1979 hire dates (former National). Pan Am/DAL was not a merger. It was an asset acquisition. ALPA Fragmentation policy should have been used. The 2 MECs didnt follow the fragmentation policy. DAL picked and chose who they hired. That acquisition/who got hired, produced a number of DFRs. Most failed. MDA's current lawyer, Mike Haber, got about $54M out of ALPA in one DFR settlement. ALPA wasn't really at fault. It was the DAL and Pan Am MECs that got ALPA in trouble. But as the CBA, ALPA paid. BTW, are Ken Lankford or Rick Burke still active pilots at DAL? One note, all the DFRs were filed AFTER the new list was put in place.

Just to be clear, the DFR settlement had to do only with the activities of the Pan Am MEC over which pilots were eligible to be considered by Delta to be hired. The Delta MEC was not involved in that. The acquisition did not trigger Pan Am's fragmentation language and ALPA Merger Policy was pretty silent about that issue until later on.

The Delta MEC took on about 200 more pilots than were required to fly the routes and aircraft bought from Pan Am. This was done to throw a life line to as many pilots as possible. Within a few years, there were more than 200 original Delta pilots furloughed while most Pan Am pilots were still flying.

There has never been a case where a pilot group like Pan Am had virtually no contractual protections and were treated as magnanimously as the Delta pilots treated them. When Delta lost it's last second officer positions, we forced management to allow the PFE's to be able to bid onto F/O and Captain positions and even made them allow pilots to take personal leave to build hours so they could come back with their original seniority. They also got preferred hiring at ASA and Comair to build their hours.

Just another example that if you do the right thing in an integration it produces better results for the pilot group as a whole.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Hey everybody! Do me a personal favor tonight. If you plan on partying until the new year is official PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't drink and drive. Get yourself a cab or a designated driver. You'll have more fun not having to worry about getting home and not hurting someone or going to jail and f'ing up your career! HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS!!!!

 

[flybynite]

Happy New Year Ya'll!!

Relax and bring in the new year safe and sound.

 

[Al Legheny]

Maybe some on the US list were just flying dinky little Convairs and YS-11's when they got hired and don't deserve to be where they are on the list.

Bbbbuutt!...

Yeah, youre right, maybe they were flying Dash-8's.

 

[Barrister]

Although arbitrator Bloch ruled that the company could furlough Out of seniority, when managing the seniority of pilots under seperate operations, there was no denial of, and even somewhat of an affirmation of the Nicolau award as the seniority list for the combined LCC.

If a merger happened while both sides still had furloughs, or even if only the West had furloughs, those West furloughs bring the job occupied by the employed east pilot junior to them in seperate ops. Merged in entirety, the employed junior east pilots occupy the jobs of their more senior West counterpart..........


HA , now that;s funny. Please see transition agreement. Parker can furlough 500 of you and it has NOTHING to do with the East or USAPA. What a stretch dude!! Please define "junior to them". Been trying to splain it to ya!! NO Joint contract no NIC. No bucks no Buck Rogers!!

VNIIMN

 

[traderjake]

Now that's funny. A America West pilot saying that somebody else made a lousy career choice. Cleared you made my day.

How many 20 year First Officers does the West have?

Which airline went from 400 to 230 airplanes?

Which airline filed for bankruptcy protection twice?

Who makes more money and has better contract?

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[HPDriver]

HA , now that;s funny. Please see transition agreement. Parker can furlough 500 of you and it has NOTHING to do with the East or USAPA. What a stretch dude!! Please define "junior to them". Been trying to splain it to ya!! NO Joint contract no NIC. No bucks no Buck Rogers!!

How about you show is that part of the TA you're referencing.

VNIIMN

YAWN!

 

[Flippin43]

WRONG! Bad example. Try again! This time use your head.

Tell me, why is the '91 hire DL pilot more senior to the '79 hire DL pilot? My guess....must have been an agent, ramper, FA or something prior to being a pilot. Obviously he joined the pilot ranks between 1987 and 1991.

So, please try again. Show us a SIGNIFICANT case on the DL/NW list with a disparity of more than 5 years? And not just a few guys here and there, show us a case where that despairity runs through 75% of the list! Won't find it. Let alone a 10 year dispairity ofer 60% of their list or 12+ years over half of their list? :unsure:

He just did !!!

75% huh your right we won't find it because you are wrong again.

Flippin

 

[SparrowHawk]

Hey you bunch of grumbling whiners,

HAPPY NEW YEAR

From one of your customers

 

[Flippin43]

I must say I'm astonished...

Something that wasn't ALPA's fault!!! Of course, that was at other carriers. At US? Pilots pass around a petition demanding DOH - that's ALPA's fault. The MEC (US pilots) threatens recalling the NC if they don't demand DOH - that's ALPA's fault. The NC (US pilots) demand DOH - that's ALPA's fault.

Let's see...the situational ethics, followed by situational logic, and not situational blame assignment...

Jim

Jim,

Thank You, for the clarity and faithfullness of your comments. I'm glad someone sees it for what it is.

Unfortunately, most east guys will claim your "on the bottle"

I hope your New Year goes well.

Flip

 

[ggiby]

How many 20 year First Officers does the West have?

Which airline went from 400 to 230 airplanes?

Which airline filed for bankruptcy protection twice?

Who makes more money and has better contract?

Ignorance is bliss.

Don't hold your breath for an answer....
I for one can't wait to see the answer though????
I am sure it will be full of lots of words.....

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Now that's funny. A America West pilot saying that somebody else made a lousy career choice. Cleared you made my day.

Here is the difference, US employees think they are entitled to work, belong to unions and do the minimum and whine when they have to to more. Standard failed east coast attitude. At America West we were fighters, we did the job, we worked to move the airline forward. An airline made up of people that wanted to work, not people that felt they were owed a job. A modern company, not some failed vestige of entitlement. Yeah, HP made some major mistakes, I was screaming bloody murder when we brought on ancient 747-200's and the like, but we fought, while US folk just whined.

And, so it is today, the east is all about litigation even though they are clueless as to how the world works, its all about "don't you know how much we were through in the old days?" Too bad, we don't care. AWA rescued you from certain death and since then all you have done is spit in our faces.

No love for the whiny entitlement class.

In a normal world, you all would be grateful for a job, not whining about the one you have.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Moderators, Pardon me.

...

Great post. Glad I got to see it before the powers yank it (or chop it up.)

Happy New Year!

 

[flybynite]

Here is the difference, US employees think they are entitled to work, belong to unions and do the minimum and whine when they have to to more. Standard failed east coast attitude. At America West we were fighters, we did the job, we worked to move the airline forward. An airline made up of people that wanted to work, not people that felt they were owed a job. A modern company, not some failed vestige of entitlement. Yeah, HP made some major mistakes, I was screaming bloody murder when we brought on ancient 747-200's and the like, but we fought, while US folk just whined.

And, so it is today, the east is all about litigation even though they are clueless as to how the world works, its all about "don't you know how much we were through in the old days?" Too bad, we don't care. AWA rescued you from certain death and since then all you have done is spit in our faces.

No love for the whiny entitlement class.

In a normal world, you all would be grateful for a job, not whining about the one you have.

A modern company? Don't make me laugh.

This company can't even figure out how to order the correct sized trash bag liners for the trash carts on our aircraft.

Pulled the plug on the IFE and the power ports. Yep, that sounds real modern to me.