US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/14-10/22

[boeingplt]

Thank you for saving me the trouble of responding to luv737s post. You are exactly right, and this is the reason so many senior pilots on the east voted for the per-capita distribution.

Happy to oblige. Thanks for the support as well. The last twenty months have seen a lot less eating of the young than the last twenty years.

 

[luvn737s]

So a furloughees who took a 150k per year pay cut as a result of the productivity concessions that kept them on the street gave less than those who remained employed. Makes sense....NOT!

Furloughs came as a result of their juniority - end of story. There was no inherent unfairness that a skewed re-distribution of lump-sum money needed to redress.

Now if individual pilots wanted to contribute to a fund from their lump-sum payment that could be given to furloughees, then I would have no problem. I also think an assessment to pay for certain pilots COBRA benefits while ignoring others is patently wrong. Again, each pilot should contribute what their consciences compel them to.

The issue is that USAPA continues to cloud issues and try to manipulate outcomes that are best left to the individual pilots. They stifle open communication among members who could offer counterpoint to the party line, because Cleary and Co. are afraid that the toothpick garrison they've built will collapse and leave them vulnerable.

 

[furlopro]

Are you referring to the ones that got flying jobs after they got furloughed? How about those that made gobs of money selling real estate? And with all the messages I get, most of you east guys have "successful businesses" that you started while on furlough and don't really need this job.

Some hardship.

You Mr hp driver are a real pice of work. You should truly be ashamed of yourself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yeah, you're right. The length of the furloughs had nothing to do with the productivity concessions that allowed the Company to fly the schedule without having to recall pilots to backfill the attrition.

You don't really need to change subjects to make your point. Those furloughed were furloughed because they were junior, as luvn737s said. They stayed furloughed as long as they did at least partly because of productivity concessions, as you said.

Same with those who found something better while furloughed - HPDriver didn't say every furloughee did, just that some did. Otherwise more than half the furloughees would have come back.

Of course the undercurrent to all that is that the pilots voted for the concessions that kept the furloughees out longer. Too much "I've got mine, pull the ladder up" mentality. Maybe voting for equal sharing of the $35 million payouts soothes some guilt but it doesn't erase history.

Jim

 

[jetjok1]

You don't really need to change subjects to make your point. Those furloughed were furloughed because they were junior, as luvn737s said. They stayed furloughed as long as they did at least partly because of productivity concessions, as you said.

Same with those who found something better while furloughed - HPDriver didn't say every furloughee did, just that some did. Otherwise more than half the furloughees would have come back.

Of course the undercurrent to all that is that the pilots voted for the concessions that kept the furloughees out longer. Too much "I've got mine, pull the ladder up" mentality. Maybe voting for equal sharing of the $35 million payouts soothes some guilt but it doesn't erase history.

Jim

There is no guilt.............It was the right thing to do!

 

[boeingplt]

Same with those who found something better while furloughed - HPDriver didn't say every furloughee did, just that some did. Otherwise more than half the furloughees would have come back.

Jim

Now, you're a smart fella so this should be easy for you. There is another large reason that half of the furloughees did not return. Any guess what that is?

 

[Metroyet]

Now, you're a smart fella so this should be easy for you. There is another large reason that half of the furloughees did not return. Any guess what that is?

Because many saw what was plainly obvious? That a future at US Air was highly questionable so they moved on with their lives and went to other healthier airlines to start over? Airlines like America West?

I've always had to wonder what all those 99 hires were thinking when they returned...2-3 years active service...double that on furlough, recalled only after the merger and yet they feel so entitled to this laughable notion that their DOH is worth so much more than the 7+ years of uninterrupted active service with AMW.

Nic. and the other neutrals didn't see it their way either.

 

[boeingplt]

Because many saw what was plainly obvious? That a future at US Air was highly questionable so they moved on with their lives and went to other healthier airlines to start over?

Come on now, there's more... What was one major reason right around the beginning of recalls that may have had them wondering about their future at US Airways? I know you can get this if you try.

 

[Metroyet]

Come on now, there's more... What was one major reason right around the beginning of recalls that may have had them wondering about their future at US Airways? I know you can get this if you try.

Truly a mind bending question. Give me a hint...did the fact that the recalls HAPPENED AT ALL have anything to do with this mysterious event?

 

[traderjake]

The last twenty months have seen a lot less eating of the young than the last twenty years.

They're not young but trying to throw 1800 West pilots under the bus is nothing to be proud of.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now, you're a smart fella so this should be easy for you. There is another large reason that half of the furloughees did not return. Any guess what that is?

Well, I consider myself smarter than the average rock...

Since the percentage that returned in the last recall was about the same as in the previous recall (especially if you don't count the CEL pilots that were included in the last recall) I can't think of anything to explain that other than half or better of the furloughees saw their prospects being better where they were than returning to US would offer. I'm sure you have something up your sleeve that applies to a few of the furloughees but want to make seem as if it applies to all. Sorta like the 2002 furloughees making $150K before they were furloughed - for some maybe a month or two of income annualized would give that figure but that's not what you said. Remember that about 2/3 of the 2002 furloughees had less than 4 years so were nowhere near top of scale.

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe voting for equal sharing of the $35 million payouts soothes some guilt but it doesn't erase history.

Jim

Bottom line: There's no way to win with you. Had the vote gone the other way, I imagine you would be haranguing the senior pilots for yet again throwing the junior pilots under the bus.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Had the vote gone the other way, I imagine you would be haranguing the senior pilots for yet again throwing the junior pilots under the bus.

Possibly, but it's hard to feel the love when most of the non-furloughed blockholders were flying 90-95-100 hours while the furloughees were on the street and then blame "the concessions" for keeping the furloughees on the street so long. While actions speak louder than words, a few years of actions speak louder than 1 action no matter how noble - unless you're Catholic, I guess. Then saying a few "Hail Mary's" makes all the sins go away...

Jim

 

[HPDriver]

Of course the undercurrent to all that is that the pilots voted for the concessions that kept the furloughees out longer. Too much "I've got mine, pull the ladder up" mentality. Maybe voting for equal sharing of the $35 million payouts soothes some guilt but it doesn't erase history.

Jim

What many an east pilot fails to grasp is that these payouts come out of their own pockets!

LOA 93 has saved to company so much money that returning a small portion of it back to the east is no big deal to Parker and company.

Congrats on your Pyrrhic victory!!!!

 

[luvn737s]

What many an east pilot fails to grasp is that these payouts come out of their own pockets!

LOA 93 has saved to company so much money that returning a small portion of it back to the east is no big deal to Parker and company.

Congrats on your Pyrrhic victory!!!!

They're like the folks who spend every penny they have at the casino and then brag about the free Circus Circus umbrella they got.