US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[767jetz]

You guys continue to spew how a contract should be put out for a vote, how we never know what would happen.. Are you clueless?

Certain USAPA supporters like to "spew" opinions as fact, with little or no evidence, such as a DOH contract being the only contract that can pass ratification. As for the clueless question, I'll just redirect that right back at ya.

 

[767jetz]

If it is so great that Silver got to keep it why did you lawyers want Wake to have it?

I believe it was because they believed it would save time and money having a judge already intimately familiar with the parties, the circumstances leading to the dispute, and many other aspects of the company's request for DJ. It's not "great that Silver got to keep it." I think it is more neutral, with the exception of expedience.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Oh, there's something to show for it, how about your side? A bill? both sides spin it to keep the masses believing.

It's been expensive, but only to date the cost has been one month's differences pay for West captains and two months differences pay for F/Os as compared to our East counterparts.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As i mentioned. the compnay is going to drag this out all the way to self help...

Just a teenie tiny question. I know that the West MEC gave the company a section 6 notice and that after the representational election USAPA squashed that, but has USAPA given the company a section 6 notice?

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

Just a teenie tiny question. I know that the West MEC gave the company a section 6 notice and that after the representational election USAPA squashed that, but has USAPA given the company a section 6 notice?

Jim

Now Jim, why would a Pilot have any expectations that their labor union...the one that costs MORE than ALPA, do a single thing to advance their quality of life or attempt to achieve any career improvements?

So the answer is "no" in continued violation of the law, the T.A., and fueled by nothing but vindictive, amaturish, vitrol, USAPA smugly refuses the most basic service to their hated minority group.

 

[Barrister]

U.S. District Court

DISTRICT OF ARIZONA


The following transaction was entered on 10/26/2010 at 11:55 AM MST and filed on 10/26/2010

Case Name: US Airways, Inc. v. Addington et al
Case Number: 2:10-cv-01570-ROS <https://ecf.azd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/DktRpt.pl?539766>
Filer:
Document Number: 65(No document attached)


Docket Text:
The Court has considered Defendant USAPA's Motion for Extension of Time to Reply to Doc. Nos. 55, 59. The motion is inartfully drawn and lacks good cause for an extension of the reply deadline. IT IS ORDERED the Motion [63] is DENIED. Signed by Judge Roslyn O. Silver on 10/26/2010.(ROS)(This is a TEXT ENTRY ONLY. There is no.pdf document associated with this entry.)

You guys are unreal......you know what this really means. Seham was working on something with a more pressing deadline so he wanted to put USAPA work off for few day to work on this other thing....OK Judge won't do it gotta stay up late to get this done.....well HP did I get it about right!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Just my opinion. I think the biggest tactical error usapa will make is not letting this case go back to judge Wake.

usapa already shot the dice on calling judge Wake biased. He also stated on the record that unfavorable rulings do not mean bias. Judge Wake asked for examples of unfairness or bias. Granath could not provide any. If usapa comes back again with charges of bias they may have to answer formal charges of sanction next time.

This judge is not going to play games. She may even move this trial along very quickly. usapa worst nightmare. A quick resolution to this little battle.

It could be a very unhappy new year for the east. A quick bench trial, an unhappy result of LOA 93, still no contract all after the new year.

Where is that MDA case at? Anyone?

 

[hp_fa]

This judge is not going to play games. She may even move this trial along very quickly. usapa worst nightmare. A quick resolution to this little battle.

I agree with the first sentence and I disagree with the last sentence.

From my perspective the Cross-Claim is the really big question. If she dismisses the Cross-Claim the Addington class will immediately appeal and also argue ripeness has occurred. If she allows the Cross-Claim I suspect that USAPA will try to file some form of special action, probably regarding ripeness. That will slow down the case in the trial court until we are past those proceedings. However I do expect her to me more aggressive in calendering and not putting up with behavior outside the rules or stretching the rules.

 

[traderjake]

Oh, there's something to show for it.....

What, other than LOA 93 wages for two years?

 

[nic4us]

I can not speak of Lakefield, Wolf and Gangwal of their travel preferences. I will say that I had both wolf and gangwal on my aircraft at different times and don't recall seeing anyone like you discribed with them. I had heard of the rumor you mentioned about bodygaurds, however.

Sorry for requesting this for clarification but by "West pilots SENIORITY" do you mean longevity or something else?

In reply to one of the few who did not boycott the presentation, I understand he had a lot to say, including that he did 'not like the nic.' He said he likes to fly 99 hours every month and more or less wanted his share of the PBGC money. His arguments was initially that he prefered PBS over line bidding.

I can only speculate about an outcome that isn't on the table, but I would guess it would contain considerable fencing. But that is just an opinion. What I would really like to know is what is it with the nic that y'all want so bad. Put aside your argument about final and binding for a moment. Do you want to fly out of the bases in the east? Do you want to fly the wide body equipment? Do you want the east attrition? Do you want furlough protection? Or...Do you want all of the above?

Many on here seem to think that we(the east pilots) have stolen something from the west. Personally, I don't see it that way. If Capt. 99hrs. a month(see above) with a date of hire of 12/12/83 and now less than 4 years wants to fly anywere outside of PHX and LAS, the C&R allow him to do that and since he was hired about 10 months before me, he would have seniority over me and I have no problem with that. I can also assure you that I have no intentions of ever bidding out west.

By Seniority, I mean Seniority. The status and rank obtain from service to your respective company. That is what was combined in the Nicolau award. Not relative longivity, not DOH, not where would a West pilot fall had he been hired at one of your former companies.

To be clear, a West pilots SENIORITY, was obtained by working for AWA. Not, where would his AWA DOH place him/her on the east's list. We were not added to the east list, and our respective DOHs are irrelevant. The C&Rs do not protect West pilot's SENIORITY.

In regards to the Senior West pilot who attended the usapa road show. Of course he does not like the Nic, it threw 517 east pilots immediately ontop of him, any of which could come to phx and knock him down a notch. To which I say, too bad so sad. That is the the right afforded all of us by our combined SENIORITY, and I have no problem with east pilots coming to PHX senior to me on the Nic, for the same reasons you give if he wanted to bid east.

Each case turns on its own merit. The east bases, the widebodies, east attrition, furlough protection, aircraft orders, everything was already factored into the Nic. The combined seniority list allows us all to share any gain or pain equitably. DOH with C&Rs does not do that, favors the east at the West expense, and has continuously been rejected as an equitable means of integrating the two groups. So here is what the West pilots want, we want a cohesive pilot group, capable of carrying this airline into the future. The only way for that to happen is honoring the results of the binding arbitration we all entered. Fool me once, shame on you, and since you already showed your hand, we are not going to get to fool me twice.

In regard to our management team. I will give my opinion, and it is completely opposite of popular opinion. We have a very good management team, once ranked as excellent but we lost one of the best players. These people can pull more rabbits out of a distressed company's hat then just about anyone. They are completely willing to spend money on infrastructure if they can see a return on investment either financially or in improving the company efficiency. Same goes for the "it is the right thing to do" contract. They want to run like a team, and they want you on it. But until you learn that the competition is not Tempe or the West pilots, but Southwest, Jetblue and Virgin America, and you start flying and bargaining with that in mind, they are going to hold us all down ruthlessly. BTW, that USA Today ad was the absolute stupidest thing usapa could have possibly done. If you think usapa and Seham are going to outsmart or intimidate Parker, Kirby and LCC, in the court, in contract negotiations or in how to run this company, all I can say while remaining polite is, think again.

But, keep the faith, we can easily get to an industry standard contract, once usapa tackles the steep learning curve that so far they have ignored. I hear there are three West reps willing to join the NAC as tutors.

 

[crazystnic]

Just a teenie tiny question. I know that the West MEC gave the company a section 6 notice and that after the representational election USAPA squashed that, but has USAPA given the company a section 6 notice?

Jim

Not sure if they have or not.. Looking at the flow chart for RLA negotiations it looks like you have to if you get a mediator, but I don't know. You seem to be sayig they have not.. I don't see how it's a big deal either way... This thing is going to drag out and in my opinion at the end it will end with a cooling off period. They don't want to pay us anythig near what we are worth.... I'll walk tomorrow and we don't need the west to pull this off.

I have teachers in my town who make 73K... and work 7:30 until 245Pm with weekends and holiday off. The guy who just fixed my boiler makes 90 per hour...

Sorry Jim.. but Kirby and his little raise and all the BS they spew is done... We are taking it back

so step aside.

 

[crazystnic]

Certain USAPA supporters like to "spew" opinions as fact, with little or no evidence, such as a DOH contract being the only contract that can pass ratification. As for the clueless question, I'll just redirect that right back at ya.

Do you work here or not? How do you know the sentiment? I fly with the guys each and every day...

 

[767jetz]

Do you work here or not? How do you know the sentiment? I fly with the guys each and every day...

Read the words again CAREFULLY... There is no evidence that a DOH contract is the only one that would pass ratification. The only proof would be a vote or at least poling of a diverse segment by a third party. (Something most real unions do when faced with contract negotiations.)

As for who one flies with, and particularly where one works, it is completely irrelevant to the discussion and it has been warned by the moderators countless times that the latter is off limits.

 

[john john]

Just a teenie tiny question. I know that the West MEC gave the company a section 6 notice and that after the representational election USAPA squashed that, but has USAPA given the company a section 6 notice?

Jim

What is the duration of the East contract?

 

[BoeingBoy]

What is the duration of the East contract?

Somewhat up in the air - the transition agreement says that the duration of a single contract will replace the separate duration periods of the East and West contracts. The West contract has been amendable for several years while I think the East contract became amendable on 12/31/2009 per LOA 93.

Jim