US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[traderjake]

LOL...YOU HOPE!!! You are SO SURE you know the future. So does USAPA. Neither of you can be sure what might happen. Why don't you just save a little credibility and stick to talking issues instead of predicting the future?

Driver B)

No one can predict the future both the overwhelming probability is that cleardirect is right.

How much more of our potential salary are you willing to throw away on a bet that has very little chance of winning? Worst than the money we are losing is the vacation and better working conditions.

 

[traderjake]

Deleted my me.

 

[john john]

the reason why the arbitrator used DOH.

Because the AWA dispatcher were going to get a better contract. That was the trade off for using DOH. Less seniority better contract. A balance. What the east wants is a better contract and seniority. Everything for the east pilots nothing for the west.

Who has the better contract WN or AirTran?

 

[cleardirect]

Who has the better contract WN or AirTran?

Your point?

According to east pilots DOH is the gold standard so DOH should be the list right? So the air tran guys should get the improved contract and DOH?

Let's see how the arbitrator balances the list. My guess some sort of ratio with a tip in WN favor. Instead of a 2.7 to 1 ratio. Maybe it is a 3 or 5 to 1 ratio. There may be a mixing of junior air tran capt. and WN f/o's in the middle of the list. Air tran f/o's could populate the bottom couple hundred spots.

But not DOH.

 

[john john]

Your point?

HP/dispatcher saved US/dispatcher
So the the arbitrator balance should go to HP dispatcher

 

[john john]

Your point?

HP/dispatcher saved US/dispatcher
So the the arbitrator balance should go to HP dispatcher

 

[nic4us]

Let's see. Listen to what Kirby and Parker have to say with a targeted message to the group they are speaking to. Or believe a court filing that will have to be proven in court in front of a judge.

Decisions, decisions!!!!

Clear,

Not only have I listened to what Kirby has said in the last three crew news videos, but I have also watched his body language, facial expressions, mannerisms and other non-verbal communications. While I feel he is always uncomfortable talking about DOH to the West pilot group and that the company's position is really the Nic is the list, there is one definitive conclusion I can draw from watching these videos.

The guy must have a whole closet full of blue shirts.

 

[spike99]

So it is either or. The company has told the court on several occasions that they have accepted the Nicolau award as the seniority list.

Let that statement sink in. There will be no negotiating C&R and DOH. DOH is not the starting point. Nicolau will be the ordered list. If the courts decide in usapa's favor the best east pilots can hope for is some fences from the Nicolau. Otherwise if this is dismissed or the court tells the company they have to use the Nicolau there will be NO fences or modifications.

If the company thought that, they would not be asking for a declaratory finding. They are trying to protect themselves from either of the findings, and only care about maximizing their bonuses. If you think they care about anything else, I'm sure you're sorely mistaken.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If the company thought that, they would not be asking for a declaratory finding.

No, they would still want a ruling giving them immunity from legal liability. The company knows that Nic will not be accepted by USAPA without a Judge's order and they also have a legal responsibility to negotiate with USAPA. So they're stuck between a rock and a hard place - negotiating with USAPA means no Nic but also means DFR II. The DJ is the only way for the company to fulfill it's obligations without legal risk.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

The guy must have a whole closet full of blue shirts.

Maybe he is frugal and is merely wearing his old Air Force Acadermy shirts.

 

[mikey60]

Let's see. Listen to what Kirby and Parker have to say with a targeted message to the group they are speaking to. Or believe a court filing that will have to be proven in court in front of a judge.

Decisions, decisions!!!!

Now your savior " Scott" is a lier? When the courts rule that the company won't be held liable they are going to negotiate with USAPA. The west can file all

the DFR's you want , maybe you will win one in 10 years. By then all the east pilots will be in the lucky 517 and won't care.

P.S. thanks for your union dues.

 

[A320 Driver]

No, they would still want a ruling giving them immunity from legal liability. The company knows that Nic will not be accepted by USAPA without a Judge's order and they also have a legal responsibility to negotiate with USAPA. So they're stuck between a rock and a hard place - negotiating with USAPA means no Nic but also means DFR II. The DJ is the only way for the company to fulfill it's obligations without legal risk.

Jim

A rock and a hard place they are not entirely unhappy to be between. Guarantees them LOA93 pay rates until this makes it through the courts and what ever time they can tack on after that.

Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

While I'm sure that they're enjoying the savings of separate ops, they don't want to be caught up in the legal battles, which is the rock or hard place I had in mind. Plus I'm satisfied that they really do want to get to an integrated operation - if they didn't why have they negotiated combined contracts with every group but FA's and pilots?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now your savior " Scott" is a lier?

No more than when the East doesn't believe what he says because they don't like it.

When the courts rule that the company won't be held liable they are going to negotiate with USAPA.

The question is what they will negotiate from, not whether they'll negotiate.

The west can file all the DFR's you want , maybe you will win one in 10 years. By then all the east pilots will be in the lucky 517 and won't care.

How long did DFR I take? I remember the East posters saying the same about it - they were wrong then and could well be wrong again.

FWIW, the "lucky 517" isn't a constantly replenishing pool - when those who are left are gone there will be no more.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

When the courts rule that the company won't be held liable they are going to negotiate with USAPA. The west can file all

the DFR's you want , maybe you will win one in 10 years. By then all the east pilots will be in the lucky 517 and won't care.

P.S. thanks for your union dues.

The company is not going to negotiate seniority. Remember, they are neutral, they have been asked to stay out of it. They are either going to insist on the Nic, or accept usapa's proposal.

If your hypothetical conclusion to the DJ is that the company is told they cannot be held liable (most unlikely of scenarios, {talk about not ripe}), and the company and usap come to a ratified contract containing DOH, then the West files suit and blocks that contract with a court ordered injunction, guess what? The company would then consider the TA to be satisfied, and do as they wish with seniority, min block, cross domicile flying, fleet plans or anything else covered in the TA.

PS. Kirby is not my savior, and I do not pay dues.