US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[BoeingBoy]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

I thought it was sort of a compliment - wonder how many Stinsons US had a year after starting up?

Jim

 

[oscarjazz]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta would have had senior f/o's as well. except they learned from usairways alpa mistakes, the pilots that could left ( with their retirements) thus everyone moved up. So many that they rehired from retirement those captains till the junior shmucks could be trained...

Then those junior shmucks voted to give up their retired pilots pension because they got cash from mangmt for their accounts...

Wow, how to start correcting your gross errors of fact. First, of all the pilots that retired early, starting in 2002, all but a few hundred would have been retired by the time of the merger anyway. Second, just like your pension, there was never any vote and never would be any vots on terminating the pension. The pension was terminated by a federal bankruptcy judge just like federal ERISA law states. Third, when the pension was terminated all active pilots got hit, most of them much more than retired pilots because they were PC-4 instead of PC-3.

With all that has happened in the last few years, it shocks me how ignorant the average East pilot is about the matters relating to their pension and the termination. It is almost as if they want to remain in a fog so they can continue to stew in their anger. By dealing with the real world, the Delta pilots got a $650 million lump sum distribution when our pension was terminated. That was done because, rather than deny reality, we accepted that our pension would be terminated no matter what we said about it, and used our leverage to negotiate Plan B as part of the overall package and did not allow ourselves to get picked off at the end game of our bankruptcy.
(Deleted by moderator), we at least understand basic facts and work to change our situation based on a realistic view of the world. Sometimes the sheer stupidity of the course taken by the East pilots makes my head spin, it is hard to know whether they can't or just don't want to understand the world as it really exists.

 

[Edward]

Folks this topic is just about ready to be closed for a week. I've just removed personal comments & comments that imo were boarder line personal at best. This stuff stops NOW. If you've got to make it personal DO NOT POST.

 

[Piedmont1984]

“If any man says he hates war more than I do, he better have a knife, that's all I have to sayâ€￾

Jack Handey

 

[cleardirect]

Aint that the truth!!!

OUr SLI was an abortion- nobody can say anything but us since they haven't walked in our shoes. Where else can you find a pilot with 15 years seniority placed next to a new hire??? WHERE? Answer is nowhere.

Interesting evolution going on here. This is an open forum but when an outsider neutral disagrees with the east position then that outsider just doesn't understand and has no right to talk and they are wrong (Nicolau, Wake, the jury, maybe the Ninth, Delta pilots, ect). Now only people that are in your exact position can understand. So can only people that have been charged with murder sit on a murder trial?

All I hear is excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse.

Now where else, name any airline that had 15-18 year furloughs. Anywhere?

 

[HPDriver]

... airline that had 15-18 year furloughs. Anywhere?

Exactly.

And tried to revive their careers via this merger at the expense of west pilots with the promise that we would "inherit the airline."

At least there are some east pilots who get it:

"They attempt to commit thuggery on the company, the West, those who disagree with them in any fashion while engaging in self enrichment. The only problem is that the West doesn't submit to thuggery and never has, the company dismisses Cleary et al as meaningless noise in the dark and as one of the disenfranchised, I sit back and watch them self destruct while the company sits counting their savings based on LOA 93."

 

[surfnfly]

Now where else, name any airline that had 15-18 year furloughs. Anywhere?

Where else is there an airline made up of so many mergers. No where

 

[Barrister]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

In 2005 AW had 120 airplanes and our F/O's are not entitled to steal the jobs of the Captain's flying those 120 airplanes.

Trader, AW did not even start flying until 1983. You need to seriously check your data.

VNIIMN

 

[HPDriver]

Trader, AW did not even start flying until 1983. You need to seriously check your data.

VNIIMN

Read closely what he wrote.

 

[Barrister]

OK, for you sensitive types how's this?

Dear Gone Fishing,

Would you would do us the honor sir of telling us how you were affected or not affected in your recent merger with Northwest Airline.

How's that HP !! Don't want to offend your highly tuned sensibilities!
VNIIMN

Hey Gone Fishing and now OscarJazz, care to comment on the above request. Got a NW guy hired 10 years after you senior to you???

Didn't think so!!

VNIIMN

 

[cleardirect]

Trader, AW did not even start flying until 1983. You need to seriously check your data.

VNIIMN

What a ridiculous thing to say.

In 2005 AW had 120 airplanes and our F/O's are not entitled to steal the jobs of the Captain's flying those 120 airplanes.

Did I miss something? It says 2005 what does 1983 have to do with your post? Just spring loaded to be wrong?

 

[cleardirect]

Hey Gone Fishing and now OscarJazz, care to comment on the above request. Got a NW guy hired 10 years after you senior to you???

Didn't think so!!

VNIIMN

How about this. If anyone has a problem with the list, go take it up with Nicolau and your east merger committee.

Unlike the east that created its own list and tried to impose it. This was a list decided by an uninterested third party neutral.

Go take your problem up with him. Stop bashing the west, we did not design the seniority list we were simply a party to the arbitration.

Take your fight somewhere else.

 

[HPDriver]

Hey Gone Fishing and now OscarJazz, care to comment on the above request. Got a NW guy hired 10 years after you senior to you???

Didn't think so!!

VNIIMN

We would have been smart about it and negotiated fences so it wouldn't have mattered.

You guys wanted nothing to do with fences because everyone over their wanted to upgrade via west seats.

You guys shouldn't have walked away from the table.

Care to comment?

Didn't think so.

 

[LSS]

Wow, how to start correcting your gross errors of fact.
...it shocks me how ignorant the average East pilot is about the matters relating to their pension and the termination.
(Deleted by moderator), we at least understand basic facts and work to change our situation based on a realistic view of the world. Sometimes the sheer stupidity of the course taken by the East pilots makes my head spin, it is hard to know whether they can't or just don't want to understand the world as it really exists.

You are wrong if you're insinuating that what happened in Delta's BK with their DB plan termination is similar to what occurred at U. First, a BK judge did not terminate our DB plan. Secondly, the MEC were leading the pilots to believe that they would have a vote on whether to agree to terminate our plan. The East pilots were flat out misled by the BS being put out by the MEC. It was the MEC that decided to terminate the plan... in the wee hours of the morning of March 22, 2003. So don't think you know everything, as your comparison of Delta and what the U pilots were dealt is like comparing apples and oranges.... and total BS!

 

[Barrister]

How about this. If anyone has a problem with the list, go take it up with Nicolau and your east merger committee.

Unlike the east that created its own list and tried to impose it. This was a list decided by an uninterested third party neutral.

Go take your problem up with him. Stop bashing the west, we did not design the seniority list we were simply a party to the arbitration.

Take your fight somewhere else.

You ain't paying attention to my posts. The "Westies" basically have nothing to do with it. I blame NIC. He simply got it wrong by setting a ratio with a company that had been around for for 25 years with one who had been around for 50 years (estimate for you BB and HP who will call me out if I am wrong by a year or two). Fact is you will inherit this company, just not as quick as NIC says you can. The mere fact of placing a 17 year never furlouged guy junior to a new hire is despicable. My only argument with the West is you fail to see and realize why this group is fighting so hard against this. Peace in the Middle East will occur before we see things your way. Nothing personal just business.

VNIIMN