US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Barrister]

I really had not thought about this in this way before, but in legal terms AWA was the company that had been around the longest. US Airways, as we all know, reorganized twice between 2002 and 2005. AWA last went through reorganization in 1992. As you no doubt know when a company goes all the way through reorganization the entering company fails to exist upon exit and a new company or organization is the end result. So a compelling argument can indeed be made that AWA was the longer existing company at the time of the merger.

their deb

Go back to the law library and do some more reading. The corporation does not cease to exist. The most important aspect is that the creditors are forced to negotiate
and loose everthing possibly is they don't. The stockholders loose as well, this you already know. Show me how the old U corp was dissolved and a new entity was incorporated. You can't. Classic case of a little knowledge being dangerous.

Oh, and by the way, Gone fishing....let me summarize your reply to my post.....you were not hurt and their are no or relatively few NW people junior to you by DOH and now senior to you. Give us hard numbers or be gone.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[hp_fa]

The existing company ceases to exist. Why do you think the unsecured creditors get very little on their debt and the stockholders usually get nothing?

 

[Barrister]

Your analogy is not quite right, my longevity and hire date and everything else did not change upon US emerging from bankruptcy.

In the first bankruptcy everyone kept their pension except the pilots and we did not have to work five more years to vest.

By the way HP-FA is there a continuous loop of twilight zone playing in the background when you do this legal analysis. How does a trip through BR affect DOH or longevity.....OH I get it you were just stirring the pot!!!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[HP2USFA]

Yes, one wonders what purpose reorganization serves if after emerging everything remained the same. What purpose would there be? What do you think reorganization does? Gives a company time off from bills?

Egads.

And he never said anything about this being a LEGAL standpoint... he was simply responding to Barristers comment about US being around 50 years - as if that gave them more of superior standing in this mess.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The existing company ceases to exist. Why do you think the unsecured creditors get very little on their debt and the stockholders usually get nothing?

Not true. Go back to law school. Chapter 11 is only a reorganization of debt. Chapter 7 would dissolve the corporation.

 

[Barrister]

Tell ya what-- I'll post whenever I feel like it. I do read this board from time to time; I started during Doug Parker's attempt to buy Delta. Now it's my version of watching Jerry Springer--

FWIW, if I worked for a company where, after 17 years, I was still junior, I would be gone in search of greener pastures. If, for whatever reason, I stayed at that struggling company, my expectations would be fairly low in the event of a seniority merger.

For your reference, I was hired by Delta in 1987, and am a 777 captain. The former NWA guys on either side of me were hired in 1984, and are 747 or A330 captains. (Note: the hire date of the NWA guys on either side of me is irrelevant. What equipment they're on is what matters.)

As to the success of our merger, look again. Most of us are pretty happy with it. We just had a system-wide bid. Since our seniority was fairly integrated, there was no wholesale displacement of either former DAL or former NWA pilots, despite having only a couple of C&Rs on our SLI.

So let me get this right. Jet Blue goes out and buys a couple of A-330s next year and then they merge with you. The senior JB guy is now number 2 on your list. You cool with that??

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

So let me get this right. Jet Blue goes out and buys a couple of A-330s next year and then they merge with you. The senior JB guy is now number 2 on your list. You cool with that??

VNIIMN
NPJB

What makes you think that the next merger with a different set of conditions would yield the same results?

Besides the pilot that was flying an A 330 but merges through no choice of his own. Now you expect him to vacate his seat to you that was not flying an A 330?

It is time to accept the result or find something else to do. continuing to complain about what happen is a waste of all our time.

 

[luvthe9]

deleted by me

 

[HPDriver]

So let me get this right. Jet Blue goes out and buys a couple of A-330s next year and then they merge with you. The senior JB guy is now number 2 on your list. You cool with that??

VNIIMN
NPJB

We could care less what he is so long as the proper fences are up.

The east wouldn't even consider those because they wanted a straight DOH.

 

[EastUS]

Besides the pilot that was flying an A 330 but merges through no choice of his own. Now you expect him to vacate his seat to you that was not flying an A 330?

:blink:

 

[cleardirect]

Please re-read your own last paragraph. And you would be where if the top 2000 had not taken early retirement. I rest my case.

VNIIMN
NPOB

Where would you be IF US Airways had closed the doors?
Where would AWA be IF we had not merged with USA and DAL had not opposed the merger?
Where would we be IF the prices of fuel had not gone to $140 a barrel?
Where would we be IF the east pilots had accepted the Nicolau in May 2007?
Where would we be IF usapa had not maliciously sued west pilots?
Where would we be IF John Prater had done the right thing and passed the list that week?
Where would we be IF Parker had changed the name of this disaster to AWA?
Where would we be IF Parker had shown some leadership and told the east pilots first thing the Nicoalu is the list we are done?

Hey this is fun. We could what if all day long but it means nothing. So what difference does it make IF 2000 or 3000 or zero retired from DAL? It is what it is. We deal with the circumstances as they exist.

What IF Sully had hit the birds at 1000 feet instead of 3000 feet? Would it have turned out the same?

 

[Barrister]

What makes you think that the next merger with a different set of conditions would yield the same results?

Besides the pilot that was flying an A 330 but merges through no choice of his own. Now you expect him to vacate his seat to you that was not flying an A 330?

It is time to accept the result or find something else to do. continuing to complain about what happen is a waste of all our time.

Clear ya just can't jump in the middle and expect your post to make any sense. I was responding to DAL guy who said DOH doesn't matter only what you fly matters.

But he is a guy with NO SKIN IN THE GAME.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[EastUS]

We could care less what he is so long as the proper fences are up.

Seperate ops......

 

[Barrister]

What makes you think that the next merger with a different set of conditions would yield the same results?

Besides the pilot that was flying an A 330 but merges through no choice of his own. Now you expect him to vacate his seat to you that was not flying an A 330?

It is time to accept the result or find something else to do. continuing to complain about what happen is a waste of all our time.

Can't leave yet , need to vote!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[EastUS]

Can't leave yet , need to vote!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

"Besides the pilot that was flying an A 330 but merges through no choice of his own. Now you expect him to vacate his seat to you that was not flying an A 330?"

Indeed. The part I found most "interesting" was the above west observation. Ummm....Isn't that precisely what the west contingent's demanding of the east group? ..ie: vacate 330/767 postions to the west, who weren't ever flying them? :blink:

"...merges through no choice of his own." was refreshingly accurate though, as it confirms the rational realization that no pilot or group "saved" another.....