US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[BoeingBoy]

When one side defines terms to fit it's argument despite what others who have been, are, will be in the same position or those who make judgments as to which side is right or wrong may use, it's impossible to convince that side they're wrong. It's no different than rephrasing a question to "prove" that the answer to the original question was "Wrong" - it's all words and attempting to control their definition, not reality...

Jim

 

[Flippin43]

Clear ya just can't jump in the middle and expect your post to make any sense. I was responding to DAL guy who said DOH doesn't matter only what you fly matters.

But he is a guy with NO SKIN IN THE GAME.

VNIIMN
NPJB

Barrister,

As it is important to you, I have a skin in this game.

As recent events have played out, our Nic list and DAL/NWA's list, DOH doesn't matter. Times have changed.

As far as what you fly, clearly if you aren't flying anything for the Airline (Furloughed) it matters and you are treated as such. Can you point to any SLI where a Furloughed pilot returned to immediatley be a block holding Captain. You did not get this and you are indignant, we get it. Sorry you don't. For that matter can you point to any other Airline where the bottom guy had 18 years. Explain to me how a furloughed guy at any airline in history had any expectation other than to return to work AT THE BOTTOM.

By the way, the Delta guy had a skin in the game. He put it all at risk with Arbitration, just like you and I did. They didn't demand a staple job. They were reasonable and as a result they can live with it. Does this tell you anything. Most of all, DAL and NWA are living up to their agreements, in this, it is you that has NO SKIN IN THE GAME.


Flip

 

[BoeingBoy]

So let me get this right. Jet Blue goes out and buys a couple of A-330s next year and then they merge with you. The senior JB guy is now number 2 on your list. You cool with that??

This is a good example of what I mean by defining the terms - it perverts the DL/NW integration ruling and turns it into a situation where one has to either agree with an absurd example (which agreement can then be ridiculed) or disagree ("proving" that the Nic is unfair). But the example itself is fantasy, not reality, so attempting to point that out can also be claimed as "proof" that the Nic is unfair.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

After 20 years, all truth can be found in the Simpsons.

Homer’s famous phrase, also reflects the east pilots favorite cry. DOH, doh, d’oh

Oxford English Dictionary in 2001,[1] The spoken word "D'oh" is a sound trademark of 20th Century Fox.[2] It is typically used when Homer injures himself, realizes that he has done something stupid, or when something bad has happened or is about to happen to him.

 

[EastUS]

This is a good example of what I mean by defining the terms - it perverts the DL/NW integration ruling and turns it into a situation where one has to either agree with an absurd example (which agreement can then be ridiculed) or disagree ("proving" that the Nic is unfair). But the example itself is fantasy, not reality, so attempting to point that out can also be claimed as "proof" that the Nic is unfair.

Jim

Ah!..The perverse delights attendant to arcane subltleties...or vain attempts at such anyway.

Speaking of fantasy; spin this: The nic would place people, who were literally grade school children when many of your former coworkers began their professional flying careers, as "senior" to the latter. That's the actual reality.

 

[Hawkhunter]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

In 2005 AW had 120 airplanes and our F/O's are not entitled to steal the jobs of the Captain's flying those 120 airplanes.

Not one of our F/Os would of taken one of the West Captains seat. Ever hear of no bump no flush? The West Capt was seat protected. Try again West wanna be.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Speaking of fantasy; spin this: The nic would place people, who were literally grade school children when many of your former coworkers began their professional flying careers, as "senior" to the latter. That's the actual reality.

Boo Hoo...

And many of those grade school children were Captains at the time of the merger when many of your former coworkers where furloughed and on the street.

Thats the actual reality.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Just how many of those oh so desired F/O WB spots are there?


Make an effort and ask a west crew the next time you see them. How many want to move or commute to the east coast. you are going to find very few.

Hpdriver, has bragged how she is going to move to CLT and even asked me where to live! On the Hotel van we had the misfortune of being with a West crew. The angry F/O made it a point to say several times how he cannot wait to move to CLT. So, I guess I met the only two who want to come East. Try again Westie.

 

[Waketurbulence]

The angry F/O made it a point to say several times how he cannot wait to move to CLT.

Sure he did... :closedeyes:

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not one of our F/Os would of taken one of the West Captains seat. Ever hear of no bump no flush? The West Capt was seat protected. Try again West wanna be.

Maybe you should research "no bump/no flush" a little more thoroughly since what you say is absolutely false.

The nic would place people, who were literally grade school children when many of your former coworkers began their professional flying careers, as "senior" to the latter. That's the actual reality.

As it should be. When I started as a third-seater I flew with a captain who was several years younger than myself yet significantly more senior - younger yet more senior is one of many realities that just goes along with the job. Accept it or find a job where either age is the sole criteria for determining seniority or everyone is hired at the same exact age and progress equally...and good luck with that...

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

Boo Hoo...

And many of those grade school children were Captains at the time of the merger when many of your former coworkers where furloughed and on the street.

Thats the actual reality.

As long as these folks are convinced the west is a subset of the east ("real" USAirways pilots), reality will have to continue to be set aside.

 

[Metroyet]

Ah!..The perverse delights attendant to arcane subltleties...or vain attempts at such anyway.

Speaking of fantasy; spin this: The nic would place people, who were literally grade school children when many of your former coworkers began their professional flying careers, as "senior" to the latter. That's the actual reality.

And?

 

[luvn737s]

As it should be. When I started as a third-seater I flew with a captain who was several years younger than myself yet significantly more senior - younger yet more senior is one of many realities that just goes along with the job.

Does anyone seriously think that if it wasn't age, the east wouldn't find some other justification for denying a modicum of respect and courtesy to their co-workers?

Fortunately, that sort of tribal mentality can't be maintained if members are to adapt to change over which they have no control. Unfortunately it never feels as temporary as it is.

 

[EastUS]

Maybe you should research "no bump/no flush" a little more thoroughly since what you say is absolutely false.



As it should be. When I started as a third-seater I flew with a captain who was several years younger than myself yet significantly more senior - younger yet more senior is one of many realities that just goes along with the job. Accept it or find a job where either age is the sole criteria for determining seniority or everyone is hired at the same exact age and progress equally...and good luck with that...

Jim

A "surprisingly" nonsensical argument..and good luck with that. Let's examine age for a moment (which was/is traditionally the sole criteria for establishing seniority within new hire classes to this day)...Do you take exception to that statement? You speak of someone "several years younger"..Ummm...care to elaborate as to how many "several" amounted to?...Was that person at least born when you first commenced professional flying?

Was it not simply your age that saw you retired?.

OK....so much for age. Whomever here even suggested that age should be "the sole criteria for determining seniority"? How about good old fashioned time worked, achieved contributions to the entity's survival/etc, and experience gained for perhaps even some very, very slight consideration?

While you're extolling the supposed virtues of the relativists, with the essential basis for such nonsense being some absurd notions of "expectations" based upon some magical "snapshot" in time; How would yours possibly have changed, if any, due to the age 65 ruling...which came at a later "snapshot" than any which would have afforded yourself and many others any benefit?

I'm sure that it goes without saying that magical "snapshots" in time are always "fair and equitable"....ummm...aren't they?

 

[EastUS]

Hpdriver, has bragged how she is going to move to CLT and even asked me where to live! On the Hotel van we had the misfortune of being with a West crew.

The angry F/O made it a point to say several times how he cannot wait to move to CLT. So, I guess I met the only two who want to come East. Try again Westie.

Well..I'm very sure that the first was just another sincere attempt at lovingly marrying the unhappy groups, and a heartfelt, well meant effort at enhancing the "It's time to move forward" mantra.

Per the last? = Methinks that's two too many. Put me in for a NO vote....and, regardless of anything that happens in courts or otherwise, that leaves us back to; No ratified joint contract = no nic, and no triumphal west infiltration of the east.