US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[oldiebutgoody]

Well isn’t that convenient. You make a serious accusation than claim that you can’t comment.

Like so many on this board you should get the facts BEFORE attacking someone.

EDITED BY MODERATOR I never saw hp_fa attack anyone. You're really confused.

 

[cleardirect]

Looks like some offenders are scared.

Exactly why is that? Please explain.

I believe that the ONLY reason this wasn't filed criminally is that USAPA is trying to "mend the wounds" and only wants this childishness to stop, not really to cause excessive pain. The pain is caused by the childish individuals that perpetrated these stupid acts.

As far as "limited funds" goes, don't worry, they'll have plenty when the terminations start and everyone starts to pay up.

Your twisted logic never fails to amaze me.

In one paragraph you say that USAPA is merely trying to mend the wounds yet in the very next once, again threaten my job, again. Getting kind of old. If you bullies are so confident lets see it. Start the procedure. Or are you going to just continue to pound your chest with hollow rhetoric?

Ask one of your knowledgeable reps just exactly what the procedures are for firing someone for not pay extortion? I know that you east guys don’t believe in the rule of law but there are steps to follow before termination.

I would guess that USAPA might have their hands full. Could you tell everyone approximately how many east pilots have signed up for USAPA services? Somewhere around 1500? I suggest that USAPA starts at home and get your own house in order. Before you start a long distance campaign. Try signing up the east 1800 that are having buyers remorse over this little club our yours.

 

[cleardirect]

EDITED BY MODERATOR I never saw hp_fa attack anyone. You're really confused.

In other news, one of the pilots named in the suit is going to be facing the Feds on some shifty mortgage fraud in NV. Bet he's spending money on lawyers so maybe they'll throw in a freebe.

Oh I don’t know. Someone drops an accusation of fraud and when asked for facts or details they walk away from it.

If someone posted an accusation about you that was not true, than turned around and said “never mindâ€￾ You would consider it an attack correct?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Exactly why is that? Please explain.




Your twisted logic never fails to amaze me.

In one paragraph you say that USAPA is merely trying to mend the wounds yet in the very next once, again threaten my job, again. Getting kind of old. If you bullies are so confident lets see it. Start the procedure. Or are you going to just continue to pound your chest with hollow rhetoric?

Ask one of your knowledgeable reps just exactly what the procedures are for firing someone for not pay extortion? I know that you east guys don’t believe in the rule of law but there are steps to follow before termination.

I would guess that USAPA might have their hands full. Could you tell everyone approximately how many east pilots have signed up for USAPA services? Somewhere around 1500? I suggest that USAPA starts at home and get your own house in order. Before you start a long distance campaign. Try signing up the east 1800 that are having buyers remorse over this little club our yours.

If you don't get it, you're probably the only one that doesn't.

There is a procedure in BOTH CBAs to fire individuals that don't pay the agency fees. I could quote it for you, but I think YOU need to look it up and read it for yourself.

USAPA has OVERWHELMING support on the East side. Doesn't really matter if the West joins or not, but it would be good for the entire organization to get their points of view, since this really isn't an East or West thing, it's a PILOT thing.

If you feel threatened, it is because of something YOU'VE DONE, not me.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oh I don’t know. Someone drops an accusation of fraud and when asked for facts or details they walk away from it.

If someone posted an accusation about you that was not true, than turned around and said “never mindâ€￾ You would consider it an attack correct?

I guess it would be an attack if it weren't true. I'm not mentioning names, but if you know it, then google it. You'll see. Took me about 1.5 minutes to see what he/she was talking about.

Even the addresses are listed. Can't deny that, but I guess you can try.

 

[Flyz4food]

Dear Trader,

Please provide specific examples how an east pilot will "steal" a job using DOH?

Thanks in advance.

Its time for you guys to start providing proof, instead of blatant accusations.

Bus Driver

Well.....Two groups agreed to arbitration to determine how to bring both together. They agreed to guidelines for that determination. One of those being, no loss of jobs for those ON THE PROPERTY at the time of the merger. The decision in a "final and binding" arbitration resulted in a ratio integration of both groups. The furloughed EAST pilots were able to later be called back (the west didn't have folks on furlough for many many years.)as the airline grew. Furloughed, (aka. terminated, look it up) were to ccme back to the bottom of the arbitrated list. The same bottom of an EAST seniority list and the same bottom of a West list, of course, if they had people on furlough. The bottom is still the bottom, either list, either way.
Anyway, some people didn't like that idea, and are now trying to usurp an arbitrated decision with DOH. DOH puts effectively all of the WEST pilots, below the pilots that have been furloughed years ago. (So, if you were flipping burgers for years, took the recall, you knew you would be on the bottom of list.) Now here is your "proof". Using DOH now, (after a mutual decision to use an arbitrator, and probably a mutual decision the neither side would have agreed to knowing it would be reneged on), leaves effectively ALL of the WEST as fodder for a soon to be announced furlough. DOH IS FURLOUGH PROTECTION FOR THE EAST. But you already knew that. Plain and simple. Smoke and mirrors.
By disregarding the arbitration, and now using DOH, the recalled and once long furloughed EAST pilots, will TAKE the positions now vacant from the now non-working never been on furlough and on property when the merger took place WEST pilots. FURLOUGH PROTECTION FOR THE EAST PLAIN AND SIMPLE. But you already knew that.
Please justify how that is not taking another man's job. Stealing it. Tell me how you can justify someone who's been on furlough list for years, bring him back and place them ALL in front of pilots already on the property. You know that it's wrong, but you won't admit.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Well.....Two groups agreed to arbitration to determine how to bring both together. They agreed to guidelines for that determination. One of those being, no loss of jobs for those ON THE PROPERTY at the time of the merger. The decision in a "final and binding" arbitration resulted in a ratio integration of both groups. The furloughed EAST pilots were able to later be called back (the west didn't have folks on furlough for many many years.)as the airline grew. Furloughed, (aka. terminated, look it up) were to ccme back to the bottom of the arbitrated list. The same bottom of an EAST seniority list and the same bottom of a West list, of course, if they had people on furlough. The bottom is still the bottom, either list, either way.
Anyway, some people didn't like that idea, and are now trying to usurp an arbitrated decision with DOH. DOH puts effectively all of the WEST pilots, below the pilots that have been furloughed years ago. (So, if you were flipping burgers for years, took the recall, you knew you would be on the bottom of list.) Now here is your "proof". Using DOH now, (after a mutual decision to use an arbitrator, and probably a mutual decision the neither side would have agreed to knowing it would be reneged on), leaves effectively ALL of the WEST as fodder for a soon to be announced furlough. DOH IS FURLOUGH PROTECTION FOR THE EAST. But you already knew that. Plain and simple. Smoke and mirrors.
By disregarding the arbitration, and now using DOH, the recalled and once long furloughed EAST pilots, will TAKE the positions now vacant from the now non-working never been on furlough and on property when the merger took place WEST pilots. FURLOUGH PROTECTION FOR THE EAST PLAIN AND SIMPLE. But you already knew that.
Please justify how that is not taking another man's job. Stealing it. Tell me how you can justify someone who's been on furlough list for years, bring him back and place them ALL in front of pilots already on the property. You know that it's wrong, but you won't admit.

Maybe we should wait and see what the proposed list actually looks like, with all of it's add-ons such as conditions, restrictions, fences, etc.
Since your side will not participate, you have no input - except your indirect input of suing over just about any list which is forthcoming.

DOH is NOT furlough protection for the east if fences are in place. Being furloughed is NOT the same as being terminated. And contrary to your distorted view of reality, furlough is NOT pleasant, NOT like going on vacation - and many furloughees had more active duty time with the airline than the west pilots they were stapled below by Nicolau.

 

[exB717Flyer]

DOH is NOT furlough protection for the east if fences are in place.

Are you implying that fences will allow furloughs to be out of seniority? If so, you truly don't understand what a seniority number means. DOH = AWA furlough fodder. You know it, we know it, and Nicolau knew it. Whaddya think a judge is going to think?

 

[prechilill]

You can't change the seniority integration and you cannot make Nicolau go away, as much as you would like to.

 

[Flyz4food]

Maybe we should wait and see what the proposed list actually looks like, with all of it's add-ons such as conditions, restrictions, fences, etc.
Since your side will not participate, you have no input - except your indirect input of suing over just about any list which is forthcoming.

DOH is NOT furlough protection for the east if fences are in place. Being furloughed is NOT the same as being terminated. And contrary to your distorted view of reality, furlough is NOT pleasant, NOT like going on vacation - and many furloughees had more active duty time with the airline than the west pilots they were stapled below by Nicolau.

Being terminated isn't pleasant either. But in truth, furloughed is terminated. Again, look it up. It just doesn't sound as cute. USAIR didn't need your services at the time so you were furloughed. Done deal. How is it that years of active service, furlough are part of what transpired. How is it that the past of Airways should have to come back and haunt us ALL. Why are we being held accountable for it. Ancient history.

We did participate, we gave input many many time........through arbitration we now have a decision. No restrictions, no fences, conditions, no etc. It is what it is. Why should we PARTICIPATE? to change what we mutually agreed to face? We combined, knew what we were doing or in your case DO-OVERING.. What happens when you don't like the final outcome again? DO-OVER?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Like so many on this board you should get the facts BEFORE attacking someone.

AS if anything you post here is factual and can be backed up with people, places, times, quotes, etc.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Ask one of your knowledgeable reps just exactly what the procedures are for firing someone for not pay extortion?

Wow! Well, extortion is a criminal act. If you think you can back up your BS accusation of extortion on the part of USAPA, why not complain to the United States Attorney's office and see if they will investigate and prosecute the crime? It just takes a letter, or maybe even a phone call. (Well, maybe the phone call would be too uncomfortable for you when the federal prosecutor starts laughing out loud at you just before he hangs up the phone.)

Oh, and while you try to formulate your answer, keep in mind this other gem you posted shortly afterward:

If someone posted an accusation about you that was not true, than turned around and said “never mindâ€￾ You would consider it an attack correct?

 

[nycbusdriver]

You can't change the seniority integration and you cannot make Nicolau go away, as much as you would like to.

Oh. There you have it. Case closed. Prechilill has decreed it, so there will be no further argument or discussion.

Why didn't you just say that in the first place and we could have avoided over a year of going back and forth on this forum?

Moderators: Please close down this thread because the King of the World has spoken, and there's no point in going on.

 

[hp_fa]

Well isn’t that convenient. You make a serious accusation than claim that you can’t comment.

Like so many on this board you should get the facts BEFORE attacking someone.

Would you mind sharing with me specifically where I attacked anyone?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Being terminated isn't pleasant either. But in truth, furloughed is terminated. Again, look it up. It just doesn't sound as cute. USAIR didn't need your services at the time so you were furloughed. Done deal. How is it that years of active service, furlough are part of what transpired. How is it that the past of Airways should have to come back and haunt us ALL. Why are we being held accountable for it. Ancient history.

We did participate, we gave input many many time........through arbitration we now have a decision. No restrictions, no fences, conditions, no etc. It is what it is. Why should we PARTICIPATE? to change what we mutually agreed to face? We combined, knew what we were doing or in your case DO-OVERING.. What happens when you don't like the final outcome again? DO-OVER?

You sound as though you were never part of a pilot group in which some of your fellow pilots were furloughed. Glad I never had to count on people like you to watch my six.

Once again for the umpteenth time, it isn't over till it's over, nothing is binding in this life except death and taxes, the award was an aberration, which is why it sits and collects dust. Finally, to use your own logic, many would say USAPA is the final outcome - so what happens when the westyz don't like the final outcome? They throw a temper tantrum. They enter a state of denial. They send sh%t through the mail. They call fellow pilots scabs.

This too shall pass.