US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[sharktooth]

Kinda like the due process of negotiation - mediation - arbitration and the law that says binding arbitration is final and, well... BINDING. Right?

The arbitration to which you refer has no meaning without ALPA as a party to further "agreements", you know, like the necessary and fully ratified merger agreement?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Hmmm... So now we are a country of laws and due process?

Kinda like the due process of negotiation - mediation - arbitration and the law that says binding arbitration is final and, well... BINDING. Right?

I guess then we can say "So sorry. Pay up and better luck at the next arbitration."

Or are the laws only applicable selectively?

Yup, a country of laws. And getting thrown out is what happens to unions that don't abide by their own "policies".

Sucks to be them, and if you're one of them, then it sucks to be you!

USAPA has done NOTHING illegal, or even in the slightest way immoral.

There'll be no more arbitrations, at least not by choice. ALPA needs to actually come up with a real policy. If they don't soon, I believe more airlines will follow the USAPA lead.

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA has done NOTHING illegal, or even in the slightest way immoral.

That's a unique perspective!

Even in a country like Iraq, with all it's myriad issues, they still didn't write a constitution without input from all interested parties. No one said, "This is the new law of the land, like it or leave it." They had free elections (USAPA has had none) they took input from all major parties and wrote a constitution (USAPA crafted theirs in a smokey backroom with total disregard for west interests), and now those same hand-picked reps are using the current crisis to their advantage as they craft the seniority list that will materially impact every west pilot. Why won't Bradford let the pilots choose their own reps who will meet and forge a constitution that all can support uphold and defend? With Bradfords death grip on control, there is little that any rep sent from the west could accomplish. His regime is that of the crony. Power flows from him and him alone.

Is that what the US pilots were voting for 2 months ago?

 

[CaptBud330]

That's a unique perspective!

Even in a country like Iraq, with all it's myriad issues, they still didn't write a constitution without input from all interested parties. No one said, "This is the new law of the land, like it or leave it." They had free elections (USAPA has had none) they took input from all major parties and wrote a constitution (USAPA crafted theirs in a smokey backroom with total disregard for west interests), and now those same hand-picked reps are using the current crisis to their advantage as they craft the seniority list that will materially impact every west pilot. Why won't Bradford let the pilots choose their own reps who will meet and forge a constitution that all can support uphold and defend? With Bradfords death grip on control, there is little that any rep sent from the west could accomplish. His regime is that of the crony. Power flows from him and him alone.

Is that what the US pilots were voting for 2 months ago?

It would seem to me, you don't pay dues, you have no say in anything.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nothing unique about my perspective.

What's unique is that there are folks here that think that everything should just be GIVEN TO THEM, despite the fact that they CHOOSE not to participate and are a minority.

Bradford is pretty bright and has accomplished alot. You give him too much credit. There are others just as involved that are making the new system work.

In essence he is the ELECTED leader of USAPA for the present, since folks that voted for USAPA knew that he would be the defacto leader until an election system could be implemented, likely at least a year or two away.

As they used to say in Airbus school, "Resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated". Why not make it less painful for yourself and others and just get on board?

 

[luvn737s]

In essence he is the ELECTED leader of USAPA for the present, since folks that voted for USAPA knew that he would be the defacto leader until an election system could be implemented, likely at least a year or two away.

That's a stretch! I think someone as bright as you claim Bradford to be could set up a Ballotpoint election in about 30 minutes. As long as he can quash any democratic uprisings, I guess he sees no reason to.

I guess daddy didn't really want to vote,eh?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Yup, a country of laws. And getting thrown out is what happens to unions that don't abide by their own "policies".

Sucks to be them, and if you're one of them, then it sucks to be you!

USAPA has done NOTHING illegal, or even in the slightest way immoral.

There'll be no more arbitrations, at least not by choice. ALPA needs to actually come up with a real policy. If they don't soon, I believe more airlines will follow the USAPA lead.

USAPA has done NOTHING illegal, or even in the slightest way immoral.

Now there's a laugh, and exactly what the coolaid was designed to make you say.

I think Charles Manson said something very similar shortly after his arrest many years ago - he truely believed he was the mesiah, and was only trying to save the world. Kinda like Stevie B. and his merry band of followers.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[trunion]

I'm just a spouse, a former f/a. I've been lurking on here, and reading everyone's comments, as well as watching all the U-Tube drama. I'm sure most us would like to go back and have things the way they were before the merger, we thought morale was low then. My husband would always come home and say "It's getting ugly out there!" I took his comments lightly because the man is a complete pessimist. He is constantly telling me we will soon be moving to a trailer with no air-conditioning in the middle of the desert. Now I am starting to believe him.
It's evident that things are not getting better and the hatred is growing. I don't know how you will ever resolve this. My first suggestion would for all sides to replace their spokespeople and officers. Start fresh, hopefully with some lighter personalities. (Chris Behl types.) Those guys in the USAPA U-Tube videos have to go first. Sorry guys, but you're just unlikable. No one from the West will ever like anything you have to say. The lawyer has to go too. He's probably praying to be replaced.
Because no one is willing to give at all, you are all losing. You are not helping this company make it through these tough economic times with your bickering.
NO ONE is going to have a job left unless you grow up. No one is going to win this thing, let's get over it and try to save the jobs that are left.


Response:

Only the west guys looked rediculous in the videos. The USAPA guys were very professional. About the trailer in the dessert... WOW... so sorry... home depot sells window air conditioners for about $200, no need to suffer!

 

[checksix]

PHL Council USAPA Update
June 12, 2008



Fellow Philadelphia Pilots,

Your representatives attended a scheduled meeting of the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR), in CLT on June10 and 11. In attendance from PHL were Chairman Doug Burke, and Vice-Chairmen Roger Henriksson and Pete Dugstad. On the second day of the meeting Vice-Chairman Dugstad's Proxy was held by Vice-Chairman Henriksson. Following is an overview of what was discussed, as well as acted upon. Certain portions of the meeting were held in Executive Session, due to the sensitive nature of the issues being discussed.

* The dues policy will be mailed to all Pilots shortly. Enforcement of said policy will commence according to established guidelines. Management has indicated numerous times that they will enforce this provision.

* Your Union is operating well within budget, and currently has 2,785 members on dues checkoff

The Negotiating Advisory Committee, (NAC), began their briefing in open session, with a review of items having been Tentatively Agreed to (TA’d), by the previous CBA, as well as recommendations as to which of these items should be revisited. An informal meeting with management is scheduled for June 16, followed by negotiations beginning on June 23. Two further negotiating sessions have been tentatively scheduled for July 14 and July 28.

A general comparison between the East and West contracts followed, and it was agreed that most of the West contract was superior to the East. One area where this is not the case is Scope, where the East language is preferable.

Several members then addressed the BPR, and a summary of some of the issues discussed will be provided by the Communications Committee.

Following the members’ address, the meeting went into Executive Session, in order to complete the briefing from the NAC, as well as the Merger Committee. The Merger Committee provided the BPR with the framework for the DOH seniority list. Specific language will be worked out during negotiations; rest assured, however, that the list will be fair and equitable, as well as durable.

Scott Peterson, our Professional Negotiator, as well as Legal Counsel, briefed the BPR on the lawsuit brought against those who have attempted to sabotage the work of USAPA. As more information becomes available, we will keep you updated. This legal process will more than likely take some time.

Your PHL reps are tentatively planning a base meeting for some time in July. We will make sure that timely notice is given, in order for as many Pilots as possible to attend, as well as giving those who wish to do so an opportunity to bring forward agenda items that they wish to see added.

In closing, we would like to ask you to remain Professional in all your dealings with the public, as well as fellow employees. Remember that you are Union members, and that we are all in this together.


In unity,


Doug Burke, PHL Chairman
877-678-7272 x731, ranger_co@hotmail.com

Roger Henriksson, PHL Vice-Chairman
877-678-7272 x732 rhenrik1@nycap.rr.com

Pete Dugstad, PHL Vice-Chairman
877-678-7272 x733 pdugstad@aol.com

 

[checksix]

USAPA has done NOTHING illegal, or even in the slightest way immoral.

Now there's a laugh, and exactly what the coolaid was designed to make you say.

I think Charles Manson said something very similar shortly after his arrest many years ago - he truely believed he was the mesiah, and was only trying to save the world. Kinda like Stevie B. and his merry band of followers.

NLC

I keep reading this claim but yet there is nothing to back it up. If what you say is accurate, that in fact there is something illegal taking place, then please provide, at the minimum, the legal submission in a court of law. Absent that, it would appear that you and a few of your fellow board members are doing nothing more than attempting to incite discord amongst east and west pilots.



"INTEGRITY MATTERS"

Lead by example, back up your claim sir, let's put a lid on the "hot air," shall we?

 

[checksix]

They had free elections (USAPA has had none) they took input from all major parties and wrote a constitution (USAPA crafted theirs in a smokey backroom with total disregard for west interests), and now those same hand-picked reps are using the current crisis to their advantage as they craft the seniority list that will materially impact every west pilot. Why won't Bradford let the pilots choose their own reps who will meet and forge a constitution that all can support uphold and defend?

That is a blatantly false statement; USAPA had a C&BLs in place prior to the vote for the new bargaining agent. USAPA won the election - the C&BLs were voted upon democratically in that historic vote. You lost - get over it.

Since the US Airways pilots new union has taken its democratically won seat as the bargaining agent, there has been absolutely nothing to vote upon as a pilot group; that will change only when there is something to vote upon.

You've had an opportunity to participate in the process with your newly elected union - you have chosen not to participate. Yet, you claim you don't like the direction. All due respect, quit whining and get with the program. Otherwise, butt out of the US Airways pilots' union business.

In closing - do you know what a non-member of a labor union is referred to as? Next time you throw your favorite term around - know what you're talking about.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Why won't Bradford let the pilots choose their own reps who will meet and forge a constitution that all can support uphold and defend? With Bradfords death grip on control, there is little that any rep sent from the west could accomplish.

Bradford nor the board have no power to amend the C & BL. It takes two thirds of the members voting to do so.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Lead by example, back up your claim sir, let's put a lid on the "hot air," shall we?

The only "HOT AIR" I know of is coming out of the sphincter of some West guys. "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!"

 

[73320]

The only "HOT AIR" I know of is coming out of the sphincter of some West guys. "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!"

Why would the west want to assimilate into an airline that has a long track record of making Captains into Co-pilots? I beleive that should LCC finally liquidate it will mark the bottom of this long period of suffering. I also beleive that most of the pilots east and west will be better off in the long term should this occur. Eventually oil prices will crash and the survivors will hire again. This is clearly an impossibility to combine the groups in any meaningful and positive way. AAA could not have merged with any carrier and not had these same identical problems. The solution was to fence the east heavies for all east pilots and fence the east attrition for a reasonable amount...70-90% of east attrition should go to east, they also could have negotiated DOH bidding in east bases for some length of time. Something along these lines would have been reasonable under the circumstances. No adults in sight, and now it is even worse. Someone give us a thesis on how LCC will thrive in the future?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

The only "HOT AIR" I know of is coming out of the sphincter of some West guys. "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!"

And just how would you know something like that?

Are you crawling around on your knees checking for leaks?

Sheesh.....

How about actually tring to "contribute" something (other than male bovine doo doo) to this board.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC