US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[traderjake]

"Seniority is different from longevity." What a complete and utter crock.."supportable" only through constantly evolving variations of "It depends"., all colored to suit your purposes.

If you were the bottom man on the seniority list for 5 years are you any more senior at year five than year one?

No, you are not, but you have 5 more years of longevity.

That's because seniority is your position on a seniority list. That's why it's called a seniority number.

 

[EastUS]

Despite their "emotions of the moment," all improper behavior by former HP pilots toward pilots from the former US should stop, America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance leaders said in a letter to members, adding that there are "no 'winks and nods' in our statements. . .Conduct such as this, or allegations that West pilots have engaged in this conduct, are of absolutely no help whatsoever."

Hmmm a "cynic" might think that a pathetically feeble attempt at belatedly covering their 6,....but..in any case...whatever happened to their "All out Warfare?" :blink:

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Hmmm, this is from ATWOnline today"
:unsure:
"Group representing former America West Airlines pilots is urging its members to curtail any disruptive behavior or alleged harassment of "East" US Airways pilots. The US Airlines Pilot Assn., the new union representing US Airways pilots, named a group of former HP pilots in a lawsuit filed May 30 alleging harassment, extortion, racketeering and other illegal activities (ATWOnline, June 4). Despite their "emotions of the moment," all improper behavior by former HP pilots toward pilots from the former US should stop, America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance leaders said in a letter to members, adding that there are "no 'winks and nods' in our statements. . .Conduct such as this, or allegations that West pilots have engaged in this conduct, are of absolutely no help whatsoever."

They know they are hosed that's why the "official" pseudo-union statement. Instead of sending money to AWAPPA I suggest toilet paper.

Later,
Eye

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I was referencing AAA73Pilots editorial "Not gonna happen,BTW". I would say that if put to a vote anything can happen.

You're right, for once we agree on something again. But not going to happen if you deny yourself the right to vote.

 

[oldcrow]

Wishful thinking by someone addressing the BPR does not make the reordering happen.

Then why doesn't the BPR let them know there is no way, no how they are going to get their Empire or Eastern DOH ? Why is the BPR giving them a glimmer of hope if they already know it ain't gonna happen ? This isn't just a few pilots trying to stir the pot so to speak, there are many pilots that think the Empire and Trump pilots should get their original DOH if nothing more than just the principal of it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Then why doesn't the BPR let them know there is no way, no how they are going to get their Empire or Eastern DOH ? Why is the BPR giving them a glimmer of hope if they already know it ain't gonna happen ? This isn't just a few pilots trying to stir the pot so to speak, there are many pilots that think the Empire and Trump pilots should get their original DOH if nothing more than just the principal of it.

Every member has a right to address the BPR on any topic. Why don't you call up your rep and ask him.

But I'll ask you this, is it Eastern or Trump DOH? There is a difference. And you have mentioned both.

 

[oldcrow]

Every member has a right to address the BPR on any topic. Why don't you call up your rep and ask him.

But I'll ask you this, is it Eastern or Trump DOH? There is a difference. And you have mentioned both.

To answer your first question, I don't have a rep to call since I'm no longer an active pilot. As for your second question, I was told it is their Eastern DOH they are seeking. As I said earlier, I think USAPA would be going down a slippery slope if they let this idea gain momentum just because a group of pilots want to take the "moral high ground".

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I was told it is their Eastern DOH they are seeking. As I said earlier, I think USAPA would be going down a slippery slope if they let this idea gain momentum just because a group of pilots want to take the "moral high ground".

Then we have no worries. It's still not happening. In my class alone there were 27 (Not really sure who's left) ex-Eastern pilots who left to come here, just like to go to Trump, they were required to resign from EAL and start over. So if the Trump guys want their DOH I say great! Let them have it. But EAL date is a non starter.

The only "Moral high ground" issue was started by the west to create dissension. This was discussed many months ago during the campaign. Once again if you tell the same thing over and over it will take on a life of its own. Too bad some people believe it. Only to be disappointed.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I don't know how any union can correct for all of the perceived injustices of the past. The BPR should just put forth the notion that things that happened 10 or 20 years ago under ALPA are just not within the realm of repair. I'm sure that you couldn't even get the proper documentation if you wanted to to be able to right all of ALPA's wrongs.

Luckily, USAPA came around to prevent the SECOND BIGGEST travesty in all of ALPA's history (the first being the trashing of the Pilot pension), the Nicolau award of excrement.

 

[nycbusdriver]

And Trump and Empire pilots might be interested in building a coalition with the west pilots (eventually, perhaps) to build the voting muscle to overcome the tyranny of the USAir/Piedmont bloc.

Well, yes, they might be interested. Most of the really "high power seniority" Shuttle pilots are retired, and with those left combined with the Empire group that is still here probably amounts to about 150 or so. Assuming they would ALL jump on the west bandwagon of Nic, that gives you guys about 1900 votes.

Any other ideas?

That being said, many of the remaining Shuttle pilots were new hire Trump people and they got hosed by Nic just like most of the rest of the East pilots. And there is a significant number of the Empire group that would also fare much better with their USAir DOH than the Nic award. That should whittle your coalition windfall down below 100.

Any other ideas?

I don't know who addressed the BPR regarding giving Trump and Empire their DOH. It doesn't matter. As a member in good standing, I could have conceivably addressed the BPR and argued passionately for immediate implementation of the Nicolau list. That doesn't mean that the "inner circle" is considering it.

I've been on record with my own personal opinion on the Trump pilots and the Empire pilots. Given that all the rEAL Shuttle pilots had to resign from EAL to work for Trump (which operated under its own certificate, not the EAL certificate,) it is a difficult argument to make stick that one should retain his DOH given at a company from which he resigned.

Also, IMHO, the Empire pilots should be given a DOH listing based on the time they started operating aircraft under FAR 121. No credit for Navajo and Metro flying under FAR 135, but full credit starting from the time they began F28 ground school.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

NYC:

Excellent points sir. Well thought out post.

 

[EastUS]

I've been on record with my own personal opinion on the Trump pilots and the Empire pilots. Given that all the rEAL Shuttle pilots had to resign from EAL to work for Trump (which operated under its own certificate, not the EAL certificate,) it is a difficult argument to make stick that one should retain his DOH given at a company from which he resigned.

Fully agreed. Being one who resigned from EAL to go to PSA myself; I'd think it entirely innapropriate for any to seek "special" treatment of any sort from earlier employment. Resignation is just what it is = I quit.

 

[ClueByFour]

I don't know how any union can correct for all of the perceived injustices of the past. The BPR should just put forth the notion that things that happened 10 or 20 years ago under ALPA are just not within the realm of repair.

I see--the Angry FO From Cranberry Club only wants DOH in regards to HP. So much for the moral high ground.

It will take a grand total of one pilot to kill anything that USAPA comes up with. The second (someone from the East side who wants their "constitutionally mandated" DOH) would merely be icing on the cake.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So if the Trump guys want their DOH I say great! Let them have it. But EAL date is a non starter.

So much for the "principle" of DOH when it comes to fragmentation.....

Jim

 

[EastUS]

I see--the Angry FO From Cranberry Club only wants DOH in regards to HP. So much for the moral high ground.

It will take a grand total of one pilot to kill anything that USAPA comes up with. The second (someone from the East side who wants their "constitutionally mandated" DOH) would merely be icing on the cake.

Any interest in rendering this latest BS into actual specifics, and backing them with a substantial wager?

BoeingBoy: BS sir. When one resigns from a given entity/list/etc..one has quit that entity/that list. Given that an EAL DOH "wouldn't have hurt me", to say the least, and that I yet hold that such would be both irrational and fully unfair to others...Well...Feel free to again assail the supposed lack of priciples therein. I'm past tired of assertions that those believing in DOH are equally corrupted with "It's ALL about MEEE!". Nice try though.

There are such things as actual principles. I've yet to see any evidence of such within the "relative seniority/It's ALL about MEEE!" fans.