US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

USAPA Update

The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives convened its Special Meeting today which is being held at the Ramada Airport South and Conference Center, 212 West Woodlawn Road, Charlotte, 28217. For transportation to the meeting from CLT, call 704-525-8350.

President Bradford opened the meeting with a President's Briefing that included a review of the “Notice to Agency Fee Payersâ€￾ document which is now posted in the Members Only section of the USAPA web site; this document will also will be mailed to each individual US Airways pilot’s permanent address. An “Agency Fee Payerâ€￾ is a pilot who declines Union Membership or resigns from it, but is obligated to pay USAPA “Agency Feesâ€￾ as a condition of continued employment at US Airways. This notice describes in detail the options and responsibilities of each pilot with regard to their dues obligation to USAPA, and the grievance procedure concerning related disputes.

Vice President Cleary briefed the Board on progress with the Union Operating Manual. Secretary/Treasurer King followed with a briefing on the status of USAPA membership and dues check-off. He also informed the Board that dues billing will be delayed awaiting necessary Company data necessary for the billing. It is anticipated that billing with commence shortly.

The Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) then provided a briefing that included a review of present East and West contracts, a review of the status of each section proposal from the old JNC process, and included an established list of items that require further discussion.

The following is the current planned schedule of the Negotiating Advisory Committee:

Monday 16 June
Meet and greet with Company team

Week of 23 June
Kick-off of negotiations
½ day devoted to flow-through discussions with Company, ALPA and Wholly Owned reps

Weeks of 14 July and 28 July
Negotiations

Following the NAC briefing, President Bradford opened the floor to pilots in good standing. Topics included longevity pay and benefit issues for furloughed pilots and seniority date of hire issues relating to former Empire and Trump Shuttle pilots.

Oldcrow: Is this what you meant by insiders? Members addressing the PBR are not exactly insiders. You may be right that some members of the affected group would like to reorder the list. Not going to happen, BTW.

The Board then convened in Executive Session as the Negotiating Advisory Committee, Merger Committee and legal counsel briefed the Board on strategy issues.

Today's meeting adjourned at 1800, and will reconvene at 0900 for day two and for day three (if needed). All USAPA members in good standing are invited to attend. Due to briefings from the Merger Committee, it is expected that the meeting will be conducted in Executive Session until approximately noon.

 

[luvn737s]

I agree. It should be DOH, with CR&F's, when we are moving forward or static - and LOS when we are moving backward or furloughing. Whoever had his/her company ticket punched first is numero uno - and last is last. Fair and easy. And the CR&F's maintain each group's pre merger reasonable expectations.

Why would a young guy just starting his career have a problem with that?

By young guy you mean a 58 year old America West pilot who is a 24 year employee who will end up as a co-pilot during a furlough, while a former furloughee takes the left seat he was forced to vacate. I can't imagine why he would have a problem with that.

Oh, and by the way, if the Empire and Trump pilots can build a coalition, why can't the matter be placed before the pilot group as a whole for a vote? I thought USAPA was all about the vote. Now they're in a smoky backroom cutting deals for themselves. And ALPA was bad why?

 

[Piedmont1984]

By young guy you mean a 58 year old America West pilot who is a 24 year employee who will end up as a co-pilot during a furlough, while a former furloughee takes the left seat he was forced to vacate. I can't imagine why he would have a problem with that.

Now you're talkin shite. I am a 24 year employee. If you get furloughed - then Doug Parker gets furloughed.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

A bad word, even misspelled, is still a bad word......

Let's watch the language now shall we?

 

[nycbusdriver]

By young guy you mean a 58 year old America West pilot who is a 24 year employee who will end up as a co-pilot during a furlough, while a former furloughee takes the left seat he was forced to vacate. I can't imagine why he would have a problem with that.

Oh, and by the way, if the Empire and Trump pilots can build a coalition, why can't the matter be placed before the pilot group as a whole for a vote? I thought USAPA was all about the vote. Now they're in a smoky backroom cutting deals for themselves. And ALPA was bad why?

We don't have anyone on the east who was furloughed who has a 24 year old DOH. That means, even by straight DOH, all the previously furloughed pilots on the east would likely be back on the street before your 58 year old 24 year veteran has to move to a f/o seat.

When you try to make a point, please use a scenario that is at least possible.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

By young guy you mean a 58 year old America West pilot who is a 24 year employee who will end up as a co-pilot during a furlough, while a former furloughee takes the left seat he was forced to vacate. I can't imagine why he would have a problem with that.

Oh, and by the way, if the Empire and Trump pilots can build a coalition, why can't the matter be placed before the pilot group as a whole for a vote? I thought USAPA was all about the vote. Now they're in a smoky backroom cutting deals for themselves. And ALPA was bad why?

Boy, you turned that one sentence into an entire conspiracy theory. Nowhere does it say ANYTHING about an Empire/Trump coalition or even that more than one person talked about it. It certainly doesn't say that we won't get a vote on whatever the outcome is.

Now that the Harry Potter books are done, maybe you should look into a career as a science fiction writer.

Nobody with 24 years should be furloughed, EVER! Even though I'll bet there are some 24 year guys from the East behind 5 or 6 year guys from the West on their "preferred" list.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Boy, you turned that one sentence into an entire conspiracy theory. Nowhere does it say ANYTHING about an Empire/Trump coalition or even that more than one person talked about it. It certainly doesn't say that we won't get a vote on whatever the outcome is.

Now that the Harry Potter books are done, maybe you should look into a career as a science fiction writer.

Nobody with 24 years should be furloughed, EVER! Even though I'll bet there are some 24 year guys from the East behind 5 or 6 year guys from the West on their "preferred" list.

To be fair, luvn737 didn't say the 24 year west pilot would get furloughed, but he would get pushed out of the captain's seat.

Either situation is impossible even with a straight DOH list, but evidently if they say it loud enough and long enough it will probably take on a life of its own anyway. In a few days it will be put forth as a fact which USAPA is clandestinely trying to enforce before Labor Day.

 

[UPNAWAY]

I see CAL Pilots are picketing tomorrow.
Why do unions think that is a good idea? Bad, bad PR move.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (Flyz4food @ Jun 10 2008, 09:51 AM)
Being terminated isn't pleasant either. But in truth, furloughed is terminated. ....."Put people without jobs....below people with jobs. Hmmm." "Let's just say in this case.....this case only. You have 24 years, you are dead last." "We did participate, we gave input many many time........through arbitration we now have a decision. No restrictions, no fences, conditions, no etc. It is what it is. Why should we PARTICIPATE?"

"No restrictions, no fences, conditions, no etc." Aw heck...might just as well ad Leo's famous "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" .

"Why should we PARTICIPATE?" Ummm..perhaps because Christmas has come and gone..and despite Prechilill's enthusiastic: "Ho Ho Ho, St Nic is coming to town!"...well...he really isn't, and there are other issues.

"I have watched fellow pilots/ friends get furloughed and recalled. I have never thrown anyone under a bus or bent another over a chair as you are attempting to do to protect your end."
Well golly!..You've "watched" ...ummm.."fellow pilots" being furloughed..ummm..don't you mean = "furloughed is terminated"?...Umm...BUT: "I have never thrown anyone under a bus or bent another over a chair" Yeah...Riiiight....Sure thing sweetie. I'm taking a "wild guess" herein = Those "fellow pilots" that you "watched" being ""furloughed is terminated"..were hired after you were..True?or False?` Were you there longer than they were?..or..are you just, really, really, oh-so-very "special?"

"quote name='Piedmont1984' Glad I never had to count on people like you to watch my six.[/quote]

AAAY-men sir...Integrity does actually matter....and "It's ALL about MEEE!" is of little value in any element/flight/team effort....except to any enemy present of course.

 

[oldcrow]

I don't imply anything. If I want to find the answer to something I go right to the source. The whole idea of reordering the list for these 2 groups started by the west to foment dissension during the campaign. It didn't work then, it's not working now. Either your "source" on the "inner circle" is telling you what you want to hear or you're just making it up. Which I am inclined to believe the later. Imagination is a great thing.

The giveaway is your use of the term "inner circle". There isn't one. Do you mean the merger committee by chance? I spoke to a member of that committee, lets just say it was total BS then and it still is total BS. If your trying to create dissension, nice try. It didn't work.

OK AAA73Pilot, this is an excerpt that was just sent to me from my "source". It is from an official USAPA update that was sent out a few hours ago.

"Following the NAC briefing, President Bradford opened the floor to pilots in good standing. Topics included longevity pay and benefit issues for furloughed pilots and seniority date of hire issues relating to former Empire and Trump Shuttle pilots."

So its BS AAA73Pilot ? I'm trying to create dissenion ? You say you spoke with a member of the committee ? Looks like my source is more truthful than your source, sport .

 

[EastUS]

It's not a dumb question at all. The short answer is "It depends". Seniority is different from longevity.

"Seniority is different from longevity." What a complete and utter crock.."supportable" only through constantly evolving variations of "It depends"., all colored to suit your purposes.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

OK AAA73Pilot, this is an excerpt that was just sent to me from my "source". It is from an official USAPA update that was sent out a few hours ago.

"Following the NAC briefing, President Bradford opened the floor to pilots in good standing. Topics included longevity pay and benefit issues for furloughed pilots and seniority date of hire issues relating to former Empire and Trump Shuttle pilots."

So its BS AAA73Pilot ? I'm trying to create dissenion ? You say you spoke with a member of the committee ? Looks like my source is more truthful than your source, sport .

Well sport, Look on page 17 of this thread and you can see I posted entire update. Plus my embedded response. It is still BS and always will be. Wishful thinking by someone addressing the BPR does not make the reordering happen. Sorry, but my sources seem to be better than yours. Let me rephrase it then, promoting dissension. Hows that?

In addition, since all the Empire pilots are senior to me it really doesn't matter. Maybe not to others that would be affected though. But the Trump DOH would move all of them behind me. That is just not right and a vast majority of my peer group feel the same way.

 

[luvn737s]

Boy, you turned that one sentence into an entire conspiracy theory. Nowhere does it say ANYTHING about an Empire/Trump coalition or even that more than one person talked about it. It certainly doesn't say that we won't get a vote on whatever the outcome is.

I was referencing AAA73Pilots editorial "Not gonna happen,BTW". I would say that if put to a vote anything can happen. And Trump and Empire pilots might be interested in building a coalition with the west pilots (eventually, perhaps) to build the voting muscle to overcome the tyranny of the USAir/Piedmont bloc.

Someday the concept of negotiation will sink in. We can hope at least.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

Hmmm, this is from ATWOnline today"
:unsure:
"Group representing former America West Airlines pilots is urging its members to curtail any disruptive behavior or alleged harassment of "East" US Airways pilots. The US Airlines Pilot Assn., the new union representing US Airways pilots, named a group of former HP pilots in a lawsuit filed May 30 alleging harassment, extortion, racketeering and other illegal activities (ATWOnline, June 4). Despite their "emotions of the moment," all improper behavior by former HP pilots toward pilots from the former US should stop, America West Airlines Pilots Protective Alliance leaders said in a letter to members, adding that there are "no 'winks and nods' in our statements. . .Conduct such as this, or allegations that West pilots have engaged in this conduct, are of absolutely no help whatsoever."

 

[EastUS]

I would say that if put to a vote anything can happen.

Why would you be the least bit concerned with any such notion? It's the west's position to intentionally deny yourselves any votes....One of us is truely 'unclear on the concept".