US ALPA/USAPA/West Thread for week of 3/22-29

[end_of_alpa]

From the ALPA web site:

USAPA. A whole new meaning to the word SCAB.

I am a USAPA supporter. Am I a scab?

A simple yes or no.

Do you agree AWA320, Leonidas, 700UW, b737fo, tiger 1050, any other USAPA haters?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Where did I call anyone a scab?

You elected your officers to represent you, they went to arbitration, so you did vote for them.

And inform yourself of Seeham's anti-labor history and his dealings with Amfa, PFAA and Kevin McCormmick.

And so we vote for a new union. You say Seham is anti-labor. I KNOW Lee and he is anything BUT anti-labor. Labor firms OUTSIDE ALPA rarely represent just one side for MANY reasons....that doesn't make them ANTI-LABOR!

But you imply USAPA is anti-labor.

I voted USAPA.

Am I anti-labor? Am I a "scab"? A simple YES or NO from YOU to BOTH questions is all that is required. NO EXPLANATION.

(Silence says it ALL!)

 

[end_of_alpa]

ALPA merger policy will not save you:

A spokesman for the Delta unit of the Air Line Pilots Association said the union won't go along with the suggestion by the Northwest pilots' union to go to accelerated arbitration to resolve differences over how to merge the seniority lists of the two unions.

"We've said all along that this process is not conclusive to arbitration and that arbitration is an abdication of leadership and it won't be a part of this process," said Capt. Robert Hazzard, the communications chairman for the Delta union.

In a meeting Wednesday at an Atlanta hotel, a majority of the pilots voted roughly 370-200 against a resolution to set a recall election to remove the four leaders of the local unit that represents 4,000 Atlanta-based pilots. A group that was unhappy with the union's leaders for their decision to go along with Delta's merger plans had eventually planned to recall Moak, chairman of the 7,000-member Delta union.

"It failed," said Hazzard. "It's part of the democratic process."

Mike Stark, a Delta pilot who has initiated the recall effort, said the campaign still sent the message that many pilots were unhappy about the lack of information union leaders had disclosed about the merger-related contract talks.

"This was a wake-up call to the pilot group," he said.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/busine...hwest_0319.html

So tell again me how good ALPA guys are?

Let's screw our "brothers and sisters" one more time!!!

Like ALWAYS, the LARGER group, aka DAL, will use the POWER of their size to ASSIMILATE the NWA guys. They have probably already cut a deal with management to serve their OWN interests.

But they are not scabs or a "yellow-dog" union. Right.

 

[end_of_alpa]

So how'd she like those 19 seconds?

It was NINE seconds! I work FAST!

 

[end_of_alpa]

"AWA MEC Update – March 25, 2008

Re: Freund Responds to Seham

It seems that we are not the only ones who appreciate the sound legal advice of our merger attorney, Jeff Freund. USAPA attorney Lee Seham said that Mr. Freund is a “very well-respected seniority integration specialist†and found the legal analysis in his post-hearing arbitration brief to be sound and persuasive.

In a letter sent to Mr. Seham today, Mr. Freund acknowledges the compliments and details why he believes USAPA—if it becomes the bargaining agent—would not be free to negotiate with the Company over a change to the seniority list and accompanying conditions and restrictions developed by the Nicolau Panel. First, Mr. Freund explains why Mr. Seham’s reliance on Rakestraw v. United Airlines and other similar cases is misplaced then states that since we believe “changing the Nicolau Award is impermissible under the circumstances of this transaction … we will look to it [the Company], as well as to USAPA, for monetary damages in the event USAPA wins the NMB election and the Company facilitates USAPA’s efforts to undo the Award.†Mr. Freund believes that Company attorneys will understand the law the same way we do, and as a result of management standing firm on that point in negotiations, “all pilots—West and East—can expect a very long wait before they achieve any contractual improvements with very little prospect of achieving the seniority result USAPA seeks.â€

The letter is attached for your review."

The letter is in pdf file so I don't know how to put it up, but this attorney, according to usapa's own seham, is one of the best. He goes on to say that the company is a party to the award and should they choose to modify the Nic, the AWA pilots will demand hefty compensation along with punitive damages from the company and usapa.

What is the date of the letter and can you post the whole text....or are you afraid to? Seham didn't receive a letter with the date of 25 March 2008.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Listen to the latest AWA hotline....800-get-alpa.

They HATE USAPA so much that they wish to skewer Seham and East pilots. They hate us so much that they are doing ANYTHING to prevent any of us from achiving a SINGLE CONTRACT.

The outright LIES along with the "edited" tapes of the West USAPA roadshow are there simply to drive East pilots into some Catholic guilt trip so they will vote for ALPA!

They are right...a vote for ALPA will wreck ALL OF OUR CAREERS!

WE ARE POLARIZED AND THERE IS MORE TO COME. The East MEC is comprised of these pilots that want to do to the West pilots something even worst under ALPA than USAPA wants to do....SEPARATE BUT EQUAL OPERATIONS.....in DIRECT CONFLICT WITH both the ALPA Constitution and Bylaws AND the NMB who has stated that WE ARE UNDER ONE SINGLE CBA.

Make no mistake....the West WANTS YOUR JOBS AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO TAKE THEM NOW.

The EAST MEC wants to DIVIDE ALPA PILOTS....so who is WORST in the eyes of the WEST? The East MEC or USAPA?

They will grudgingly choose the East MEC because ultimately they WILL be put into trusteeship if they don't negotiate a single contract....even the company wants a single contract! So "separate" but equal is a MYTH!

The lies are coming fast and furious now.

AWA pilots are promoting jumpseat wars now. They won't let you ride the jumpseat unless you profess you voted for ALPA.

Go to the ALPA website to find out.

 

[dariencc]

Take your chance with Seeham? LOL.

This is law firm that has represented El Al and Alitlia against the IAM whose company locked the IAM out.

This is a law firm that lost a major arguement of the RLA and set precedence that a a company does not have to abide by the Status Quo in negotiations with a newly organized group without a CBA.

Doesnt get more anti-labor than that.

It might surprise you to find out that a law firm has an obligation to represent the clients that retain it. Perhaps the many defense attorneys that began as Assistant D.A.s are doing something unethical, too. Fortunately for them, the World Expert on Everything doesn't hold much sway in legal circles, so they're safe for now. But keep trying.

As for the swell bunch that runs Alpa, could you please set aside a bit of your feverish Google time to check out former President Randolph Babbitt. That giant of the labor movement is the founder and President of Eclat Consulting. Good Old Randy is now making a small fortune advising a large number of airlines, among other clients, on how to hammer their employees' pay and benefits. Among his favorite clients is none other than the Ford and Harrison law firm, perhaps the leading anti-labor firm in the country, and former stomping ground of Gerald Glass.

Yeah, let's stick with Alpa! :down:

 

[BoeingBoy]

Like ALWAYS, the LARGER group, aka DAL, will use the POWER of their size to ASSIMILATE the NWA guys. They have probably already cut a deal with management to serve their OWN interests.

But they are not scabs or a "yellow-dog" union. Right.

Isn't that exactly what you've said USAPA will happily do - use the power of the majority to force it's will on the minority. Interesting that doing such makes for "scabs or a yellow-dog union" - your words, not mine.......

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Wow, you are a bigger idiot than I thought, so in your delusion, it is the west that has refused to negtiate with the company? go take another hit off that crack pipe.

My subscription to Readers Digest makes your claim of me being an idiot moot. I usually score around 50 percent on their word power tests.

It was the Continental Pilots web site that gave their opinion about the america west pilots wanting to "negtiate" with the company.

 

[700UW]

Glass is back with F&H and no union should hire an attorney who is anti-union and his less than stellar track record with AMFA at ACA and NW and the PFAA at NW.

And an attorney doesnt have to take a client, they choose too.

Seeham's Partner in AMFA

 

[end_of_alpa]

Doug comments on pilot seniority integration.
May 19, 2007

To: US Airways Pilots

I have received a number of questions and comments from pilots regarding what the Company can do in relation to the recent seniority integration arbitration decision. While I’ve been responding to them individually, I thought in this case it would make sense to update the entire pilot workforce.

First, let me begin with the facts -- the Company’s role in the seniority integration process is extremely limited. We, along with the East and West ALPA MECs, entered in to a Transition Agreement in September 2005 that addressed a number of issues, including the Company’s role in pilot seniority integration. The Agreement states that the integrated seniority list will be determined in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and then submitted to the Company by national ALPA for acceptance.

The Company is then to evaluate the list to determine compliance with five criteria set forth in the Transition Agreement. Those criteria are:

No "system flush" whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latter's Position.

Furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots.

No requirement for pilots to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not actually flown).

Allows pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed initial qualification training for a new category (e.g., A320 Captain or 757 First Officer) to be assigned to the position for which they have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the integrated seniority list.

Does not contain conditions and restrictions that materially increase costs associated with training or company paid moves.

If all of the criteria are satisfied, the Company must accept the list.

So, where are we now? First, while we all know that the arbitrator has made a determination, national ALPA has not yet submitted a list to the Company for acceptance. Whenever we do receive a list, we will review it for compliance using the standards listed above, but as you can see, the criteria is pretty straightforward and well defined.

Please do not take a lack of involvement to mean that the Company is not interested in this important issue. I have heard from many of you about how much this award could potentially affect you and your family, and I care about that very much. What I am saying is that the integration of seniority (other than compliance with the negotiated criteria) is a union process to manage and the Company cannot do anything unilaterally to affect this award.

I know that both pilot groups have very strong feelings on this subject and emotions are running high, but I’d ask that we please don’t let this process and the emotion around it drive us to a place that will make it difficult to work together in the future. As this unfolds, please be respectful of each other’s position and professional as always.

We’ll continue to monitor the process and I’ll let you know if anything develops regarding the Company’s involvement.



Doug

This "criteria" is the ONLY limit that the Company imposed on ALPA merger policy.

The "list" accepted by the Company is ALPA's PROPOSED list. They may have it....but NO VOTE, NO LIST!

USAPA will most likely be held to the same standard that ALPA was held to....a list meeting the SAME criteria.

Kirby acknowledges that they have the "list" but it can only be implimented IF and ONLY IF a JOINT CONTRACT IS NEGOTIATED AND RATIFIED.

Until then....separate but UNEQUAL.

I'll get an AIRBUS Captain bid in the next cycle. If the company wants me to TDY in PHX and/or LAS to fly your trips I'll be the FIRST to go since you don't think my seniority is worth SPIT!

 

[dariencc]

Isn't that exactly what you've said USAPA will happily do - use the power of the majority to force it's will on the minority. Interesting that doing such makes for "scabs or a yellow-dog union" - your words, not mine.......

Jim

You're misrepresenting the intent of end-of alpa's posts, Jim. He was pointing out the hypocrisy of the pro-alpa posters who are calling Usapa members scabs while not applying the same label to the Deltoids. Below he quotes the Alpa website making the charge:

From the ALPA web site:

USAPA. A whole new meaning to the word SCAB.

I am a USAPA supporter. Am I a scab?

Here he is responding to the fact that while Delta's actions are being met with silence by Alpa national, the Westies, and numerous USAviation posters, Usapa is being accused of being a scab outfit by those same people:

Like ALWAYS, the LARGER group, aka DAL, will use the POWER of their size to ASSIMILATE the NWA guys. They have probably already cut a deal with management to serve their OWN interests.

But they are not scabs or a "yellow-dog" union. Right.

He's calling out certain people to note the contrast, Jim. Your taking a literal interpretation of his words, minus the irony, in a direction he is not intending to go.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Your attempt at defending EofA's words is ingenious, but pointless. He accused ALPA, via the DL pilots, of wanting to do exactly what he says USAPA will do - use the majority's power of force it's will on the minority. In other words, of being "scabs or [a] yellow dog union" for supposedly doing exactly what USAPA proposes

If the company wants me to TDY in PHX and/or LAS to fly your trips I'll be the FIRST to go since you don't think my seniority is worth SPIT!

He's just digging his hole deeper and deeper. Seems that the truth is coming out.....EofA seems anxious to be first in line to take another pilot's job.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=B3-G7awYch0&feature=user

Priceless!

The america wests pilots mike was stuck during the meeting as the above video reveals. The USAPA pilots were barely allowed to utter one sentence in answer to their questions without it being interrupted repeatedly by emotional outbursts.

I would like to thank the USAPA volunteers for their hard work and courage.

The emotional outbursts of the america west pilot in the background reminds me of John Belushi.

america west pilot in the meeting video

 

[end_of_alpa]

Isn't that exactly what you've said USAPA will happily do - use the power of the majority to force it's will on the minority. Interesting that doing such makes for "scabs or a yellow-dog union" - your words, not mine.......

Jim

If you've been on the ALPA forum that is what the West pilots are calling USAPA voters/pilots/union members/whatever.

Those are NOT MY WORDS....AWA pilots think USAPA are "scabs or a yellow-dog union".

And you're right. That is EXACTLY what I said they will do. Which negates the "theory" that we're all ALPA pilots. Delta pilots will force their best interests if their majority wills it....and therefore negates the necessity of any NATIONAL union.

Case closed.