US ALPA/USAPA/West Thread for week of 3/22-29

[EastUS]

Amazing! The more I watch the more I question the lucidity of the USAPA supporters. To be fair I know this video is edited and most likely edited to reflect a certain point of view but... Wow! The arrogance is simply stunning. Where is the USAPA rebuttal? Seham, Thuer, and Bradford honestly amaze me! Thin ice gentlemen. Very thin ice... 'Course that doesn't matter when the only outcome is a positive one for you. Problem is you had to be hired by the east to have the country club membership extended to you.

Amazing's the word all right. Direct quote from the AWA gallery during a "televised" meeting = "Treat us like professionals..we're not F--kin' stupid"..and delivered without any intent towards irony I'd assume Too many other erudite expletives to bother specifically mentioning...in that they were bleeped out. All in all..a truly class act put on by clearly the most "professional" group ever to exist..that wouldn't be tolerated in even a high school auditorium.

 

[Leonidas]

Amazing's the word all right. Direct quote from the AWA gallery during a "televised" meeting = "Treat us like professionals..we're not F--kin' stupid"..and delivered without any intent towards irony I'd assume Too many other erudite expletives to bother specifically mentioning...in that they were bleeped out. All in all..a truly class act put on by clearly the most "professional" group ever to exist..that wouldn't be tolerated in even a high school auditorium.

Once again you deflect any real response, instead of a writer you need to be a politician. You talk in circles just like the usapians on the video.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Amazing's the word all right. Direct quote from the AWA gallery during a "televised" meeting = "Treat us like professionals..we're not F--kin' stupid"..and delivered without any intent towards irony I'd assume Too many other erudite expletives to bother specifically mentioning...in that they were bleeped out. All in all..a truly class act put on by clearly the most "professional" group ever to exist..that wouldn't be tolerated in even a high school auditorium.

Get to the meat of the matter! You complaining abou a few swear words you most likely use daily does little to lend credibility to your argument. But hey let's not forget that is obviously the most serious issue in all that video How 'bout you comment on what Thuer said while he talks out of both sides of his mouth...

 

[EastUS]

Once again you deflect any real response, instead of a writer you need to be a politician. You talk in circles just like the usapians on the video.

What "real response" do you require? The longest "question" was responded to with the incusive suggestion for inputs from the west, and you cheerfully gloss over that fact. You gloss over ANYTHING that fails to supprt your "Gimme MINE" agenda, and your "Brothers and Sisters" wouldn't serve as any model for Pilots that I'd want the world to see via the internet/etc. Frankly?..It's seriously embarrassing to have anything to do with your bunch at this point...but; we will have to eventually work things out.

Tiger: "You complaining about a few swear words you most likely use daily" You casually justify a demeaning public spectacle with that notion? I've never been a fan of public profanity..but it seems just fine with your bunch....how truly "professional" indeed. We're a generation and a lot of miles apart. Don't be so naeive as to assume that your world view's universal.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Once again you deflect any real response, instead of a writer you need to be a politician. You talk in circles just like the usapians on the video.

Yeah he does have a tendency to do that but remember fiction can be fun too!

 

[EastUS]

Once again you deflect any real response, instead of a writer you need to be a politician. You talk in circles just like the usapians on the video.

I'd never succeed as a politician. I have not the slightest patience for indulging any room full of dyspeptic, "professional" monkeys throwing verbal feces about, much less personally accepting insults from such.

Addendum for the "Treat us like professionals..we're not f---kin' stupid" and other like minded, and sublimely expressive "professionals" out west as for how to conduct yourselves in public:

Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606
1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b: engaged in one of the learned professions c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

 

[Leonidas]

"AWA MEC Update – March 25, 2008

Re: Freund Responds to Seham

It seems that we are not the only ones who appreciate the sound legal advice of our merger attorney, Jeff Freund. USAPA attorney Lee Seham said that Mr. Freund is a “very well-respected seniority integration specialist†and found the legal analysis in his post-hearing arbitration brief to be sound and persuasive.

In a letter sent to Mr. Seham today, Mr. Freund acknowledges the compliments and details why he believes USAPA—if it becomes the bargaining agent—would not be free to negotiate with the Company over a change to the seniority list and accompanying conditions and restrictions developed by the Nicolau Panel. First, Mr. Freund explains why Mr. Seham’s reliance on Rakestraw v. United Airlines and other similar cases is misplaced then states that since we believe “changing the Nicolau Award is impermissible under the circumstances of this transaction … we will look to it [the Company], as well as to USAPA, for monetary damages in the event USAPA wins the NMB election and the Company facilitates USAPA’s efforts to undo the Award.†Mr. Freund believes that Company attorneys will understand the law the same way we do, and as a result of management standing firm on that point in negotiations, “all pilots—West and East—can expect a very long wait before they achieve any contractual improvements with very little prospect of achieving the seniority result USAPA seeks.â€

The letter is attached for your review."

The letter is in pdf file so I don't know how to put it up, but this attorney, according to usapa's own seham, is one of the best. He goes on to say that the company is a party to the award and should they choose to modify the Nic, the AWA pilots will demand hefty compensation along with punitive damages from the company and usapa.

 

[end_of_alpa]

"AWA MEC Update – March 25, 2008

Re: Freund Responds to Seham

It seems that we are not the only ones who appreciate the sound legal advice of our merger attorney, Jeff Freund. USAPA attorney Lee Seham said that Mr. Freund is a “very well-respected seniority integration specialist†and found the legal analysis in his post-hearing arbitration brief to be sound and persuasive.

In a letter sent to Mr. Seham today, Mr. Freund acknowledges the compliments and details why he believes USAPA—if it becomes the bargaining agent—would not be free to negotiate with the Company over a change to the seniority list and accompanying conditions and restrictions developed by the Nicolau Panel. First, Mr. Freund explains why Mr. Seham’s reliance on Rakestraw v. United Airlines and other similar cases is misplaced then states that since we believe “changing the Nicolau Award is impermissible under the circumstances of this transaction … we will look to it [the Company], as well as to USAPA, for monetary damages in the event USAPA wins the NMB election and the Company facilitates USAPA’s efforts to undo the Award.†Mr. Freund believes that Company attorneys will understand the law the same way we do, and as a result of management standing firm on that point in negotiations, “all pilots—West and East—can expect a very long wait before they achieve any contractual improvements with very little prospect of achieving the seniority result USAPA seeks.â€

The letter is attached for your review."

The letter is in pdf file so I don't know how to put it up, but this attorney, according to usapa's own seham, is one of the best. He goes on to say that the company is a party to the award and should they choose to modify the Nic, the AWA pilots will demand hefty compensation along with punitive damages from the company and usapa.

We are ANXIOUSLY awaiting the lawsuit. You may have "negotiated" a seniority intergration solution but it isn't final until it is voted in. Case law doesn't favor Freund. I'll stake my chances with Seham, thank you.

Besides, the company has been doing this as long as Freund.

See you in court. Hope YOU can afford the legal bills. Besides, I will NEVER join ALPA. I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA.

 

[b737fo]

I'd never succeed as a politician. I have not the slightest patience for indulging any room full of dyspeptic, "professional" monkeys throwing verbal feces about, much less personally accepting insults from such.

Could you do doublespeak and claim you didn't say "cost neutral fix that's going to buy you labor peace" in a roadshow? If so then maybe you could succeed as an attorney for the USAPS.

 

[Leonidas]

We are ANXIOUSLY awaiting the lawsuit. You may have "negotiated" a seniority intergration solution but it isn't final until it is voted in. Case law doesn't favor Freund. I'll stake my chances with Seham, thank you.

Besides, the company has been doing this as long as Freund.

See you in court. Hope YOU can afford the legal bills. Besides, I will NEVER join ALPA. I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA.

Voted in? where does it say the list has to be voted in? and case law doesn't favor freund? Let's see east and west pilots agree to arbitration, the company accepts the list, and freund has no case law in his favor?

 

[b737fo]

I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA.

.... and that sums it all up folks. I would like to think that other USAPS don't hold the same beliefs or the industry is in trouble. Too bad it is not 1985 or 1989 end of alpa or you would get a chance to prove you stand by what you say.

 

[Phoenix]

I'll cross ANY picket line with ALPA.

ALPA.. Picket line?

LOL! Talk to Atlas and Polar about how ALPA deals with picket lines. For that matter ask John Prater from Continental about picket lines.

ALPA never saw a principle it wouldn't deny to make a buck. ALPA doesn't have the credibility to designate a picket line.

 

[Phoenix]

You'll get to actually VOTE.

"Yeah, you actually VOTE, but besides that what does USAPA have over ALPA?"

(LOL! The irony of such a stupid question!)

 

[AAA73Pilot]

.... and that sums it all up folks. I would like to think that other USAPS don't hold the same beliefs or the industry is in trouble. Too bad it is not 1985 or 1989 end of alpa or you would get a chance to prove you stand by what you say.

Actually I think he (End of ALPA) is taking a page from the west this time. Seems to me that some west posters here or on the ALPA boards said the same thing about crossing a USAPA picket line. The justification being USAPA doesn't count as a union or something to that affect. I/we don't think ALPA is a union either.

And you're right about one thing, the industry is in real big trouble. It's only going to get worse until someone replaces Prater and calls for a SOS. Maybe that will get Wall Streets attention. Can it be done? Yes! Will it? IMO. No!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

ALPA.. Picket line?

ALPA never saw a principle it wouldn't deny to make a buck. ALPA doesn't have the credibility to designate a picket line.

Funny isn't it?

You're right about the picket line. But you really gotta love "Live to fight another day". All I have to say is "With what?" Or the best one, "Get a deal, any deal". Yea great leverage there. But picket line sponsored by ALPA? Now that is hilarious.