US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[prechilill]

It's obvious that some of the 'dirtier details" of the Nic is embarrassing to the west...there is a detectable "edge" since the disclosure of a 6 year old going before a HIRED airline pilot out East.

Hey, the truth hurts. What with the Metroyet's and Prechillils of the world proclaiming that the East pilots have had it easy in the NE corridor when other "real" pilots fly in PHX. Lets not overlook Prechillil's failure to respond to her pronouncement of coming to PHL as a captain eagerly....although the west "only wants what they brought to the dance"...right....

The trial is around the corner, I'm told, and many of the ugliest details of greed and opportunistic bravado are sure to be entertaining. I have it on good authority that this is far from over, regardless.

I've been away for awhile, but I see the old guard back as the time draws near...Tazz, Prechillil, Metroyet, NLC....yep, truly drooling over the possibilities....what a sad bunch you are out west.

pathetic.

cheers

Right after the judge issues his order in about three weeks I am packing my bags for Philly! Des, you and nos can buddy bid with me, you both have a lot of maturing to do. Before Start Check! TTFN!

 

[prechilill]

QUOTE (prechilill @ Apr 20 2009, 05:42 AM) *
""Easy to answer... they went to work for the wrong airline, just like the pilots at Braniff, Pan Am, Frontier and Eastern. Any other questions?""

Well maybe miss pre deregulation can explain the meaning of the comment she made above. Was that to be construed as a compliment to former pilots of those airlines.

No, the statement is a coded message for a primitive life form found in Philadelphia- that's all. WE've been trying to establish contact with them for almost four years but to no avail- their brains appear to be burning up internally. In three weeks we fear they may even explode!

 

[nostradamus]

Right after the judge issues his order in about three weeks I am packing my bags for Philly! Des, you and nos can buddy bid with me, you both have a lot of maturing to do. Before Start Check! TTFN!

Great maybe I can round up a bunch of Braniff, Pan Am, Eastern, original Frontier and Us Airways pilots and you can tell us how to pick the "right airline" like you claimed you did.

Very mature post you made above by the way. Where did you attain such wisdom, flying in Australia and Bangkok?

 

[prechilill]

Great maybe I can round up a bunch of Braniff, Pan Am, Eastern, original Frontier and Us Airways pilots and you can tell us how to pick the "right airline" like you claimed you did.

Very mature post you made above by the way. Where did you attain such wisdom, flying in Australia and Bangkok?

No, I was flying for Mesa.

 

[nostradamus]

No, I was flying for Mesa.

nic4us quote;

"I would like to thank Prechill for her contribution to the 25 year no fatality safety record at the America West Airlines and Lottery Franchise!, and thanks for your contribution to airline commerce on whole."

Please advise your spokesperson above so he can edit your bio.

 

[des nudo]

No, I was flying for Mesa.

Now, now, T...many of us know exactly who you are....

BTW, how'd you get the ALPA spot so quick?

PS: (not that you would or could, but you wouldn't last 2 days as a PHL captain.)

You better keep pulling gear for your boyfriends out west.

 

[Piedmont1984]

You merely want every pilot with the same longevity to move up or down in lockstep

No I don't. But YOU want every pilot with the same relative position to move up or down in lockstep.

Ya know, there's a name for what you get for "sweat equity", time served, etc. It's seniority. You want more than you had while taking it from those you consider less deserving. Since they're not as deserving in your eyes, the theft is OK with you I guess.

The actual name for sweat equity is longevity, which in turn buys seniority. And yet again you guess wrong. I want only the seniority I brought and not have it devalued.

You put a lot more faith in some half-hearted C&R's than they deserve.

Well then, let's not make them half hearted.

But that West pilot will wait a long time to get back to where he was when the merger happened, if he doesn't retire first. So you can call claims of taking from the West pilots "nonsense" but it's what will happen. With the seniority numbers most of them would get with a DOH list it's unavoidable.

Many east pilots will never get back with a Nic list.

 

[nic4us]

Back to the original point of my post. Since you made yourself the spokesperson for prechilli, what did she mean by the comment that they picked the wrong airline. I will help. It was an arrogant, ignorant comment.

You tried to spin an insult made by one of your pilots and deflect it to me.

I reread the thread and your post, and came up with a different interpretation from my first read.

Prechill simply seems to be making sarcastic statements about " captaining an airbus in PHL" etc. rather than trying to discuss or debate. Ignorant? maybe, Arrogant? could be, Flamebait? most certainly.

What I take issue with, other than the lottery comment, was the last sentence. ...." a group that has advanced the pilot profession or the use of an airplane as commerce, it is in fact not reality".....So explain to me, what that is supposed to mean?

 

[nostradamus]

I do not believe in ganging up on a poster des nudo, good night all.

 

[EastUS]

Although I deplore it, I am also okay with flag burning, as allowing it protects the greater right of free speech.

Exactly whos experience or sacrifices have been dismissed? The six year old is an isolated example,.....

"an isolated example"? That's a an extremely long stretch, to say the very least. Would you care for others in a similar vein?

 

[EastUS]

Great maybe I can round up a bunch of Braniff, Pan Am, Eastern, original Frontier and Us Airways pilots and you can tell us how to pick the "right airline" like you claimed you did.

Very mature post you made above by the way. Where did you attain such wisdom, flying in Australia and Bangkok?

Put me in coach! I first accepted employment with Eastern ("Real" Eastern then), subsequently turned down several "majors", as the Lorenzo Effect" came up in Eastern; then got what I felt to be my "Dream Job" with PSA...and...sigh...we all know the history after that. Although those positions were extremely competitive at that time...I guess I'm qualified in picking "the wrong airline(s)...Just witness the current sad state of affairs

Answers, as I read them = "No I was flying for mesa" :blink: ...and regardless..quickly evidencing an awesome "Command Presence" properly reflective of an experienced, veteran aviator via: "Right after the judge issues his order in about three weeks I am packing my bags for Philly! Des, you and nos can buddy bid with me, you both have a lot of maturing to do. Before Start Check! TTFN!"

Folks.. .no one could ever even begin to make this kind of utterly hysterical BS up anywhere else

PS: Sigh...Guess I should have tried for the truly "Big Leagues"...like mesa/AWA

 

[nic4us]

"an isolated example"? That's a an extremely long stretch, to say the very least. Would you care for others in a similar vein?

Sure, if you like, but I would prefer you answere my question from the post you partially quoted.

Exactly how does a furloughed pilot who has less LOS than myself, aquire more experience and work performed for the company than I have, and therefore deserve to be senior to me and leepfrog a large number of West captains? I could offer a few hundred examples of that.

 

[EastUS]

Sure, if you like, but I would prefer you answere my question from the post you partially quoted.

Exactly how does a furloughed pilot who has less LOS than myself, aquire more experience and work performed for the company than I have, and therefore deserve to be senior to me and leepfrog a large number of West captains? I could offer a few hundred examples of that.

OK. That's fair enough and I'll forgo the available, additional material there and respond to your scenario.

This we agree on. My 2 cents worth, as long ago posted, is that I personally feel the longer LOS should prevail in those instances. Where we completely differ seems to be in our opinions on what "time served" should ever/always count for. I simply can't dismiss the worth of cumulative work performed by anyone. It'd "appear" that the west differs entirely on that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No I don't. But YOU want every pilot with the same relative position to move up or down in lockstep.

Not quite - I want every pilot involved in a merger to enjoy the same seniority the day after the merger via the combined list as the day before via the separate lists. What happened prior should have no effect on how the lists are merged, and what happens later is determined by those factors that always affect careers - the things you'd prefer to ignore - with the two sides riding the same boat for better or worse.

The actual name for sweat equity is longevity, which in turn buys seniority. And yet again you guess wrong. I want only the seniority I brought and not have it devalued.

And how much seniority did your sweat equity/longevity buy you on the day the airlines merged? DOH would give you more seniority than you could buy prior to the merger - but that's the whole reason for DOH when you've got lots of longevity but little seniority to show for it. Joe Blow on the other side got a discount on the price of seniority while you didn't as far as you're concerned, so Joe should give you his discount and he should be made to pay full price.

Well then, let's not make them half hearted.

They've already been made that way, and guess who gets to determine how they're implemented when questions arise - a union with East officers, controlled by a BPR that is overwhelmingly made up of East pilots, voted in by a majority of the members who happen to be East pilots. A stacked deck, perhaps?

Many east pilots will never get back with a Nic list.

Back to where? The highest position they held at some point in the past? Then who do you think is going to have to give up seniority for them to "get back" to that seniority? The West pilots maybe?

Or the positon they held at the merger? The NIC list puts all pilots who were active at the time of the merger at the same place they had on their pre-merger list - actually better than that for most of the East pilots thanks to the "517". I know - what about the "active" MDA pilots, right? Even the company was using what has been called a "fake" list that showed them as furloughed at the time of the merger. Right or wrong, who was Nic to believe - the East pilots or the Company? Besides, only about 20% of the pilots listed as furloughed at that time were MDA pilots. Even if Nic has considered the E170 jobs as active mainline, only a small portion of the MDA pilots would have seen a change in their placement on the combined list.

What's really unfortunate in all this is that much of what you claim to want could have possibly been obtained in merger negotiations if the East hadn't been so focused on DOH or nothing. That chance ended when it went to arbitration and now there's no entity on the West side to negotiate with. So a judge/jury gets to decide.

Jim

 

[USPHX]

Relative position has nothing to do with time and effort. Time and effort, measured in units of time in the excercise of a craft which requires units of effort is a roundabout way of describing - good old fashioned work. I worked longer and harder to get my seniority at AAA than the youngster who has spent only a fraction of the time at AWA.

Is that so difficult a concept to grasp?

BTW, I like the Oscar Wilde quote better.

Oh, allright, I think I get it now. Let me see if I understand this correctly, Piedmont1984: Using your, uhh.... logic, a Westy hired in 2000 who has worked an average of 85 hours has per month should have MORE seniority than a an Easty hired in 1999 who flys an average of 75 hours a month because he has worked longer and harder (more hours) than a guy hired a year before him?? Is that correct?? More "sweat equity" and all. Where do you guys come up with this (self serving) stuff????