US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 2/24-3/3

[EastUS]

As an individual, all I can do is try my best to live up to the priciples "integrity" honesty and honor.

As individuals, I would take the word of any east pilot at face value, and trust that word as honest.

1) Fully agreed. That's the best that any of us can ever do..given "the human condition", and I fully respect any who earnestly do their best to walk that path.
2) For me; I can't agree there. As with any other person(s),,east/west or wherever; I take such things on a case-by-case basis. Some of your most vocal advocates have fully demonstrated to me that I shouldn't trust their "word" or "integrity" in any way, shape or form. By way of example..you've got a self proclaimed, but completely phony "war hero" hereabouts loudly trumpeting about "Class" and "INTEGRITY MATTERS" ....Words simply fail me there, save to note that you can possibly understand my irritation with such BS. Additionally..people who're so utterly immature as to say, on camera..."and we hate you guys"..or "you know why I hate all of youse!!??"..while fully displaying the appearance of emotionally distraught children in need of a mom's hug...Well...you can perhaps understand my difficulties with some of "yours". That being said; I certainly place no supposed premium level of perfection on either myself nor any others our east...or anywhere. Trust, for me's entirely dependant upon the individual person, which requires more than casual knowledge of the person....period.

All the west-east, east-west bickering aside though; I don't judge any person by their "group", and regardless of our clearly opposite opinions on the nic business/USAPA/etc...I expect that we'd have enjoyable conversation should we ever meet, and yourself and any/all other "westies" will never be afforded any personal distress or uncilvil treatment by me in the workplace.

I truly wish that there were some magical "fix" we could all employ to get the groups together as a united entity....but I've no honest vision of that happening.

PS: The latest from the "luvn" fest: "We adults are tired of hearing what you're gonna do when you grow up. Just grow up." I've just one question nic4us = Where do you find these people?...Seriously? Aww..scratch that last. I've sometimes made a fool of myself when posting as well

 

[luvn737s]

ID being confiscated in a hotel in Frankfurt? By who? The German ID Police? Where do you get this nonsense?

Who is the ID the property of?

My point is that a discussions of such bravado sound like the boastings of an elementary school playground.

We adults are tired of hearing what you're gonna do when you grow up. Just grow up.


www.snip-the-snoop.com

 

[nycbusdriver]

Who is the ID the property of?

My point is that a discussions of such bravado sound like the boastings of an elementary school playground.

We adults are tired of hearing what you're gonna do when you grow up. Just grow up.


www.snip-the-snoop.com

The fact is, you cannot be fired for engaging in legally authorized self-help. Period. You take the chance of being furloughed on the spot, but if after your one-day chaos strike, you offer to return to work, the company either has to take you back, or (if they say you're furloughed) you have to come back in seniority when there are recalls.

It's certainly not fool proof, but going on a legal, authorized strike does not get you terminated.

 

[EastUS]

It's certainly not fool proof, but going on a legal, authorized strike does not get you terminated.

Indeed. We all reasonably know that nothing in life's foolproof. Getting up everyday is a "risk". Sometimes it's necessary to "go all in" to win the hand.

 

[Megasnoop]

Snoop,
In a couple of different posts now you have criticized the AOL folks for their inability (according to Seham) to accurately recite the C&R's from USAPA's DOH list. So I would ask you now, can you clearly articulate the intricacies of the Nicolau award?

And if I disagree with your interpretation I'll just discredit your assessment as though you never read it ('course you probably never have...).

Just to set the record straight, your "DFR-6" not only couldnt "accurately recite" the DOH+C&Rs, they admitted they hadnt read it. Thats not from Seham. Thats from the depo transcripts.

Tiger, Im not suing. But if I were, Id at least spend the time to read and understand what I was suing over. Before I voted ALPO off the island, I read the Nic. My vote was an informed vote.

I dont have to "clearly articulate the intricacies of the Nicolau award" to you. But Ill take the bait anyway. Nicolau awarded the top 517 wide body slots to East pilots, albeit on a temporary basis. After that, essentially relative seniority. A couple of conditions involve following the Eishen award and the three 757s agreement, but those arent much.

If you find any disagreement with my interpretation, feel free to discredit all you want. Tell me where Im wrong. Wont change the fact that your "DFR 6" hadnt read and couldnt explain how the DOH+C&Rs worked.

www.snip-the-snoop.com (I stole that from Luvn)

 

[EastUS]

My point is that a discussions of such bravado sound like the boastings of an elementary school playground.

We adults are tired of hearing what you're gonna do when you grow up. Just grow up.

As per "grow up"? Well....Life experience is clearly a player here.. Any who've lived much time and paid any attention fully understand that an overly cautious and submissive philosophy absolutely guarantees defeat in ANY confrontational enviornment, To choose such a philosophy's hardly indicative of great experience, wisdom or maturity. Just an observation.

 

[Megasnoop]

(luvn737s @ Mar 1 2009, 04:53 PM)
Who is the ID the property of?
My point is that a discussions of such bravado sound like the boastings of an elementary school playground. We adults are tired of hearing what you're gonna do when you grow up. Just grow up.

Give it up, Luvn. Youve cornered the market on elementary school bravado.

The fact is, you cannot be fired for engaging in legally authorized self-help. Period. You take the chance of being furloughed on the spot, but if after your one-day chaos strike, you offer to return to work, the company either has to take you back, or (if they say you're furloughed) you have to come back in seniority when there are recalls. It's certainly not fool proof, but going on a legal, authorized strike does not get you terminated.

Good points, NYC. It doesnt get your ID confiscated by the German ID Police. These guys are so loaded with their own childish bravado, makes you wonder.

Ive got a slightly different take on terminations. I think companies can terminate and take hostages any time during self-help. Its a 2-way street. They can take your ID during in a secure AOA, even if your not doing the CHAOS. That invites retaliation, more CHAOS. Even if they terminate, once theres a contract, the agreement would include reinstatement with back pay. They could take your ID in a secure area and have security escort you off the property. That was the threat when ALPO showed up with the company and security in CLT to terminate Jamxx Xxxxxx when they forced him to sign a pomisory note and dues check-off.

I guess in the US, theoretically the company could ask the police to go to your home and ask for your ID. As a practical matter, how many police depts would get involved? The whole idea of a company employee (a German employee) hunting you down in Frankfurt and taking your ID? Absurd. That just shows the level of immaturity and lack of understanding these West flame throwers have.

Lastly Luvn, I just dont get the Wests need to try the DFR on this chat board. The gottcha attacks arent going to change the results of the trial. Stick with facts (the "DFR-6" admitted they didnt know what the DOH+CRs were), stop the attacks ("Just grow up").

www.snip-the-snoop.com

 

[luvn737s]

As per "grow up"? Well....Life experience is clearly a player here.. Any who've lived much time and paid any attention fully understand that an overly cautious and submissive philosophy absolutely guarantees defeat in ANY confrontational enviornment, To choose such a philosophy's hardly indicative of great experience, wisdom or maturity. Just an observation.

So how many strikes do the mighty US pilots have under their belt? OK, how many strike votes? What were the for/against percentages?

I think your total abandonment of the principal of discretion being the better part of valor might make the chest beater feel better, but look sillier in the end.

If that's possible.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Just to set the record straight, your "DFR-6" not only couldnt "accurately recite" the DOH+C&Rs, they admitted they hadnt read it. Thats not from Seham. Thats from the depo transcripts.

Tiger, Im not suing. But if I were, Id at least spend the time to read and understand what I was suing over. Before I voted ALPO off the island, I read the Nic. My vote was an informed vote.

I dont have to "clearly articulate the intricacies of the Nicolau award" to you. But Ill take the bait anyway. Nicolau awarded the top 517 wide body slots to East pilots, albeit on a temporary basis. After that, essentially relative seniority. A couple of conditions involve following the Eishen award and the three 757s agreement, but those arent much.

If you find any disagreement with my interpretation, feel free to discredit all you want. Tell me where Im wrong. Wont change the fact that your "DFR 6" hadnt read and couldnt explain how the DOH+C&Rs worked.

www.snip-the-snoop.com (I stole that from Luvn)

Snoop,
I'll be gone May 1st. My hope was to have this resolved by then but I honestly do not think it will ever be resolved and therefore I consider my "parole" a blessing. I had written a fairly lengthy response and in the end other than serving my personal pride it would have been little in purpose and big in confrontation. It does no one any good...

I wish I had answers. But...

See ya 'round
Tiger

 

[luvn737s]

Snoop,
I'll be gone May 1st. My hope was to have this resolved by then but I honestly do not think it will ever be resolved and therefore I consider my "parole" a blessing.

It hardly seems worth the effort to contribute to the success of what others want to tear down. I hope you find a career where you will be rewarded for pulling in the same direction.

I am sorry for your suffering for Parkers mistake.

 

[nostradamus]

It hardly seems worth the effort to contribute to the success of what others want to tear down. I hope you find a career where you will be rewarded for pulling in the same direction.

I am sorry for your suffering for Parkers mistake.

america west pilots had the chance to save their own, but greed set in.

You blame Mr. Parker and act like a victim, the "leadership" of the america west pilots contributed to the furlough of 175 west pilots.

Wye River “mutual solutionâ€￾ meant no Length of Service (LOS) list, no cram-down single contract, no more ALPA on property and no 400 pilots below Dave O’Dell before the furloughs.

 

[ClueByFour]

america west pilots had the chance to save their own, but greed set in.

You blame Mr. Parker and act like a victim, the "leadership" of the america west pilots contributed to the furlough of 175 west pilots.

Wye River “mutual solutionâ€￾ meant no Length of Service (LOS) list, no cram-down single contract, no more ALPA on property and no 400 pilots below Dave O’Dell before the furloughs.

The logic is amazing:

The East and West MECs cannot come to an agreement and submit the case to a mutually chosen arbitrator. That arbitration produces an award that the west will not "negotiate" and somehow you are suggesting that the West is at fault for not accepting the outcome of the subsequent "mulligan" session at Wye River?

It does not work that way--if the East wanted to negotiate, you do it before arbitration.

USAPA is, essentially, what's going to be the world's most expensive attempt at a mulligan, ever. I hope Bradford golfs better than he plays union.

 

[Megasnoop]

Snoop,
I'll be gone May 1st. My hope was to have this resolved by then but I honestly do not think it will ever be resolved and therefore I consider my "parole" a blessing.

Tiger, dont count your blessings quite yet. Looking forward, If USAPA wins the 3 arbitrations (or even any 2 of them), you will NOT be furloughed at all. 2 of those arbitrations are FBO WEST pilots only. A win in those 2 could bring back all furloughs. The company has been stalling on the reduced hours arb for 3 months. Any guess why?

I had written a fairly lengthy response and in the end other than serving my personal pride it would have been little in purpose and big in confrontation. It does no one any good...

Looking back. Check out Nosters latest post. Pride does go before the fall (Proverbs 16:18). The Wye River LOS compromise might have saved ALPO. It definitely would have put over 400 pilots below Dave O Dell. No west pilot would have been furloughed or downgraded.
http://www.snip-the-snoop.org

 

[nostradamus]

The logic is amazing:

The East and West MECs cannot come to an agreement and submit the case to a mutually chosen arbitrator. That arbitration produces an award that the west will not "negotiate" and somehow you are suggesting that the West is at fault for not accepting the outcome of the subsequent "mulligan" session at Wye River?

It does not work that way--if the East wanted to negotiate, you do it before arbitration.

USAPA is, essentially, what's going to be the world's most expensive attempt at a mulligan, ever. I hope Bradford golfs better than he plays union.

Your insatiable interest in this matter of what happens in the front of an airplane, does not coincide with your claim of being a passenger in the back of one.

I sense a personal vendetta of some kind or a mask of intention.

 

[nostradamus]

Wye river and the alpa rice commitee, nice try.

Remember paul rice is a united pilot that knew a fourth plus attempt at a merger or transaction with Us Airways and united was in the making when he claimed to be impartial. Nice try.